Afterburner detent

[PhoenixRising]

I am slightly confused by the behavior of the real life Hornet. If there is no weight on wheels or the hook is not down, is there any detent before going into afterburner? How does a pilot know they have gone j to burner?

[Steel Jaw]

Well it has finger lifts to move the throttle into afterburner, which is modeled in the hotas setup.

[Nealius]

The detent is physical and exists regardless of airborne or on the ground. To go over the detent the pilot either lifts the fingerlifts on the front bottom of the throttle, or uses approx. 35lbs of brute force to push through the detent.

[NASA Pilot]

There are no finger lifts it is just pure forward motion

[BuzzU]

The better controllers we use have a detent for AB. Which simulates the real planes throttle.

[Bob_Bushman]

The better controllers we use have a detent for AB. Which simulates the real planes throttle.

 

The warthog is a far cry away from even getting close.

 

The detent and force needed to actuate is situational, much less in air than on ground for example.

 

Even the Winwing throttle unit doesn't account for this.

Close enough sure.

[BuzzU]

The warthog is a far cry away from even getting close.

 

The detent and force needed to actuate is situational, much less in air than on ground for example.

 

Even the Winwing throttle unit doesn't account for this.

Close enough sure.

 

I use a Shapesway detent on my Warthog. It's push through and works well. I'm not a fan of finger lifts.

 

What I meant by simulating the real plane is we have a mechanical detent.

[MustangSally]

The only throttle that simulates the A/B in the hornet correctly...

 

 

Winwings Super Taurus

[Syndrome]

How does a pilot know they have gone j to burner?

 

Grab some base transducers, a mini amp, and a 3.5mm line splitter for your PC speakers. You'll know when the afterburner is activated. :punk:

 

...but so will your downstairs neighbors.

[kengou]

In settings you have the option to enable the afterburner detent - you can bind fingerlifts to a button and use that to push through the detent in-game.

 

 

If you don't do that, you need to hear the afterburner audio feedback as well as look at your fuel flow gauge on the IFEI to see it spike when afterburner is engaged.

[PhoenixRising]

Thanks for all of the replies. I actually have a Warthog with the modified push through detent. I was just curious how it was in an actual Hornet. I feel like I have seen conflicting information.

[BuzzU]

The real plane has finger lifts.

[MustangSally]

Thanks for all of the replies. I actually have a Warthog with the modified push through detent. I was just curious how it was in an actual Hornet. I feel like I have seen conflicting information.

 

 

What is conflicting? The real hornet has fingers lifts, no ifs or buts...

 

 

1. Lift to move from Idle Cutoff to Idle and back

2. Lift or push through to enter A/B

[Brun]

The confusion might be that the finger lifts only prevent the throttle being moved beyond MIL with weight on wheels. Even then they can be pushed through with the aforementioned 35lbs of force.

 

When airborne, the finger lifts are disengaged.

 

I'm no authority, but that's the case as far as I understand it.

[MustangSally]

The confusion might be that the finger lifts only prevent the throttle being moved beyond MIL with weight on wheels. Even then they can be pushed through with the aforementioned 35lbs of force.

 

When airborne, the finger lifts are disengaged.

 

I'm no authority, but that's the case as far as I understand it.

 

 

If they are disengaged during flight, what stops you from shutting the engines down??

[Brun]

If they are disengaged during flight, what stops you from shutting the engines down??

 

I nearly specified that they were disengaged for afterburner operation, but thought that completely obvious given the context.

[MustangSally]

Found this....

 

 

Advancing the throttles from OFF to IDLE (during engine start) opens the engine fuel control shutoff valves and activates engine ignition. Finger lifts, on the front of each throttle, must be raised to place the throttles OFF. With weight on the wheels, launch bar retracted and the arresting hook UP or with weight off the wheels, afterburner operation is initiated by advancing the throttles through the MIL detent gates into MAX. On the ground, an afterburner lockout system helps guard against inadvertent afterburner selection. With weight on the wheels and launch bar extended or the arresting hook DOWN, the afterburner lockout extends and the finger lifts must be raised or a force of approximately 32 pounds must be applied before the throttles can be moved to MAX. A retractable inflight IDLE stop extends with weight off the wheels and provides a higher IDLE rpm and reduced acceleration time to MIL.

What I gather from the above is that the force required to enter AB with weight off wheels is considerably less then weight on wheels.....also no need to be smart!

Edited October 14, 2020 by MustangSally

[Brun]

Actually need to correct myself:

 

With weight on the wheels, launch bar retracted and the arresting hook UP or with weight off the wheels, afterburner operation is initiated by advancing the throttles through the MIL detent gates into MAX. On the ground, an afterburner lockout system helps guard against inadvertent afterburner selection. With weight on the wheels and launch bar extended or the arresting hook DOWN, the afterburner lockout extends and the finger lifts must be raised or a force of approximately 32 pounds must be applied before the throttles can be moved to MAX. A retractable inflight IDLE stop extends with weight off the wheels and provides a higher IDLE rpm and reduced acceleration time to MIL

 

It's not simply weight on wheels that extends the lockout, but WoW *and* the launch bar or hook exteneded.

 

So for land-based operations the finger lifts (or force) wouldn't be required to engage afterburner on the ground. Even on a carrier, you could still presumably engage afterburner without the finger lifts if the launch bar hasn't been extended.

[Lex Talionis]

Finger lifts are only for moving the throttle from idle to cut-off. It does nothing for AB. Winwings throttles uses the finger lifts springs to give resistance when pushing the throttle through the AB detents. And although this recreates the correct "feel" this is not how the real jet operates. Again, it functions correctly and "feels" the same, it is simply not the same mechanism designed in the hornet. It is transparent to the gamer.

 

There is nothing keeping the pilot from using AB with weight on wheels. There is no finger lifts or lock-out mechanism associated with the AB on the real hornet. Be happy to share a vid of me using AB on a night field take off.

 

If you need f18 correct "feel " AB detents for the TM WH i can make them for you. Contact me in discord.

 

"........ have seen conflicting information."

There is much out there.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Lex Talionis

[Brun]

Obviously can't argue with your experience, but what's the above quote from NATOPS on about?

[Lex Talionis]

Obviously can't argue with your experience, but what's the above quote from NATOPS on about?

 

Send me the page number and i will look it up when i get home

[Swift.]

GB concurs, the lifts are only for idle-shutoff. The AB detent is always pushthrough

[MustangSally]

If you need the correct answer ^

[Lex Talionis]

Would very much like to know the NATOPS page on this so i can look it up ...

 

"With weight on the wheels, launch bar retracted and the arresting hook UP or with weight off the wheels, afterburner operation is initiated by advancing the throttles through the MIL detent gates into MAX. On the ground, an afterburner lockout system helps guard against inadvertent afterburner selection. With weight on the wheels and launch bar extended or the arresting hook DOWN, the afterburner lockout extends and the finger lifts must be raised or a force of approximately 32 pounds must be applied before the throttles can be moved to MAX. A retractable inflight IDLE stop extends with weight off the wheels and provides a higher IDLE rpm and reduced acceleration time to MIL"

 

 

Because if true ... "With weight on the wheels and launch bar extended or the arresting hook DOWN, the afterburner lockout extends and the finger lifts must be raised "....... you would not be able to use AB after a bolter untill the jet was already airborne, unless you fiddle with the lifts.

Edited October 14, 2020 by Lex Talionis

[Brun]

Send me the page number and i will look it up when i get home

A1-F18AC-NFM-000 page I-2-4. Or page 31 if you're looking at the same PDF as me.

 

I've not much comprehension of what the 32lbs of force feels like, but it is simply a case of relying on that rather than bothering with the finger lifts if using MAX to depart from the boat?