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[CANNOT REPLICATE] FCR Target Lock - Then FCR auto changes range and breaks lock

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    [CANNOT REPLICATE] FCR Target Lock - Then FCR auto changes range and breaks lock

    So I've seen this annoying thing for a while now. Not sure if it's a bug or something I'm doing wrong.


    I'll see a target, lets say at 70m out and I'm in the 80m range on my FCR.


    I lock the target.



    Instantly the FCR changes range down to 40m, which breaks the target lock.


    I then have to re-scale it back to 80m, re-acquire the target and it is fine.


    What is causing the range to auto-scale to something that the target isn't even at??

    #2
    Originally posted by Konfucius View Post
    So I've seen this annoying thing for a while now. Not sure if it's a bug or something I'm doing wrong.


    I'll see a target, lets say at 70m out and I'm in the 80m range on my FCR.


    I lock the target.



    Instantly the FCR changes range down to 40m, which breaks the target lock.


    I then have to re-scale it back to 80m, re-acquire the target and it is fine.


    What is causing the range to auto-scale to something that the target isn't even at??
    It's a bug. When it'll be fixed, nobody knows...
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      #3
      Originally posted by WHOGX5 View Post
      It's a bug. When it'll be fixed, nobody knows...
      If ever.
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        #4
        Can you create a short track? We are unable to reproduce the issue right now.

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          #5
          Same thing happened to me several times as well. Only in TMS tho

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            #6
            Originally posted by NineLine View Post
            Can you create a short track? We are unable to reproduce the issue right now.
            It happens when you bug a target in RWS. Maybe the word "lock" is misleading. I'll try to make a track later.
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              #7
              Originally posted by NineLine View Post
              Can you create a short track? We are unable to reproduce the issue right now.



              As soon as I am home from work I'll do a quick PvP engagement where I'll use RWS-SAM to showcase what we believe to be the so-called "auto-scaling bug".

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                #8
                As promised here I have two short YOUTUBE clips showing the suspected "auto-scaling bug" in all its glory.

                Sadly, my tracks did not work and actually did not show the problem at all. The tracks did not even show me loosing lock. Pretty wierd, huh?


                Video 01
                https://youtu.be/UeonTTYgKJA


                Description:
                Situation 1 is a target at more or less constant 6000ft coming from a front aspect. Radar range auto-scaling from 80nm scope to 40nm scope automatically happens at a target range of 35nm. Bugged target gets dropped when auto-scaling happens. Also, radar altitude coverage gets automatically changed when auto-sacling happens. Radar altitude coverage set by me during bugged target track was 42k feet upper limit / 01k feet lower limit. This gets automatically changed when auto-scaling happens to 34k feet upper limit / 11k feet lower limit. Thus, the radar is not able to find the previous target due to a suspected scan centering bug.


                Video 02
                https://youtu.be/8MemIiCsXwQ


                Description:
                Situation 2 is a target at 30000ft again coming from a front aspect. Radar range auto-scaling from 40nm scope to 20nm scope automatically happens at a target range of 12.7nm. Bugged target gets dropped when auto-scaling happens. Also, radar altitude coverage gets automatically changed when auto-sacling happens. Radar altitude coverage set by me during bugged target track was 30k feet upper limit / 15k feet lower limit. This gets automatically changed when auto-scaling happens to 27k feet upper limit / 16k feet lower limit. Radar is again not able to find the previous target due to a suspected scan centering bug.


                I hope you guys at ED get an impression of this wierd stuff and I hope my contribution was helpful.

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                  #9
                  Quite a clear video. The displayed scope is changing at 35nm which is approximately 45% of 80nm (80x.45=36). I notice that there is a significant vertical separation in altitudes and I wonder if that's a factor. Does the same thing happen if you're co-altitude?

                  There should be no reason to lose a track during a change in FCR format display range because the radar operates at maximum range at all times. Changing from 80nm display to 40nm display is strictly a difference in presentation to the pilot visually. E.g. if you are in 5nm TWS and there are radar contacts out at 100nm they are getting detected and track files are being built exactly the same as when the displayed range is 160nm. If you change displayed range the radar would already have built those tracks just as if you were in that longer display range the whole time.

                  It's looking like the radar is treating a change of display range as a brand new world. Perhaps this is best seen in TWS without bug and just switching between two display ranges that do and do not include a contact. If the contact track isn't persisting between displayed and not displayed then that's what's happening I think.

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                    #10
                    The radar must not lose the buged or hard lock contact , in any decrease or increase distance change, distance change could be occured via radar cursor too.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Frederf View Post
                      Quite a clear video. The displayed scope is changing at 35nm which is approximately 45% of 80nm (80x.45=36). I notice that there is a significant vertical separation in altitudes and I wonder if that's a factor. Does the same thing happen if you're co-altitude?

                      There should be no reason to lose a track during a change in FCR format display range because the radar operates at maximum range at all times. Changing from 80nm display to 40nm display is strictly a difference in presentation to the pilot visually. E.g. if you are in 5nm TWS and there are radar contacts out at 100nm they are getting detected and track files are being built exactly the same as when the displayed range is 160nm. If you change displayed range the radar would already have built those tracks just as if you were in that longer display range the whole time.

                      It's looking like the radar is treating a change of display range as a brand new world. Perhaps this is best seen in TWS without bug and just switching between two display ranges that do and do not include a contact. If the contact track isn't persisting between displayed and not displayed then that's what's happening I think.

                      Yes, it does also happen if I am co-altitude. I tried that, too. Indeed, there should be no reason to lose target track during an automatic FCR display format change. I suspect the radar completely resets its scan zone while the auto-scaling occurs. What we see in those two clips is not supposed to happen. Under absolutely no circumstances. And the funny thing actually is that the observed behavior does not happen if you manually change the FCR display range with a bugged target in an identical situation.


                      Originally posted by Geraki View Post
                      The radar must not lose the buged or hard lock contact , in any decrease or increase distance change, distance change could be occured via radar cursor too.

                      Exactly. I still wait for an answer from an ED official on this. They wanted something to see and now they have it. I hope they are able to recreate the issue which should not be too hard because you literally can´t fly any engagement using RWS-SAM without seeing this potential bug.
                      Last edited 08-13-2020, 04:07 PM.

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                        #12
                        If the lock is supposed to stay when the distance changes, then this is a bug. I can repro this every single time I have a lock in single player. I have not tested in MP. I lock a target while the distance is at 80nm. it changes to 40nm, and I have to re-lock the target. Everytime..
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                          #13
                          Originally posted by HayMak3r View Post
                          If the lock is supposed to stay when the distance changes, then this is a bug. I can repro this every single time I have a lock in single player. I have not tested in MP. I lock a target while the distance is at 80nm. it changes to 40nm, and I have to re-lock the target. Everytime..

                          Well, Frederf put it right and very simple in his post: "Changing from 80nm display to 40nm display is strictly a difference in presentation to the pilot visually. If you change displayed range the radar would already have built those tracks just as if you were in that longer display range the whole time."
                          So, this is spot on and has absolutely nothing to do with the ability of the FCR to maintain a lock or build a trackfile. Absolutely zero. And of course this goes for all other display ranges, too. There is no fighter jet FCR in the world I ever heard of that would drop a lock because you change the range presentation on your MFD. Think of this actually happening to you in a real fight. That would be hilarious.
                          So yeah, good to know you can repro this every single time in SP as I don't fly in that mode. It is there in MP, too as you can see in my two youtube clips posted on page 1of this thread. Again, this has to be a bug. The observed behavior is just not supposed to be happening with a real FCR.
                          Last edited 08-13-2020, 10:51 PM.

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                            #14
                            There is clearly an issue with the FCR when you got a bugged target, but in RWS, not in TWS, it happens randomly that the FCR drops the target and resets the TDC to some where the center of the screen regardless the scaling. The videos that the user Tango3B did posted in the first page are more than clear.

                            Also when you goes to STT mode even from RWS or TWS, it happend exactly the same issue, when STT mode should be a very trusty radar mode when showing a constant target update.
                            So, that's the main reason why in a pvp enviroment I have no remedy but to use exclusively TWS mode (when for a single a2a intercept should be more reliable the usage of RWS mode) in order to avoid this random issue happen.


                            As I said, those two videos posted by Tango3B are enough to show this FCR RWS/STT behavior, and you can appreciate than the target did not makes any "aggresive" maneuver such a "beaming" or "notching".
                            Track files are usless specially if you are flying in a public server, most of the time they are broken.
                            Last edited 09-09-2020, 12:19 AM.

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                              #15
                              Yeah it happened to me for many times too. I play BVR a lot so this issue occurred quite frequently. Mostly in TWS tho.

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                                #16
                                The Viper radar currently works like a quantum physics. It loses lock just randomly. It sometimes fails to lock upon pressing TMS up, loses lock in dogfight, loses lock in RWS, does not lock in TWS. Sometimes the contact fades while you are still trying to lock. These are not certain events. They happen randomly and can be experienced after long time Viper usage. Well let's say the Viper radar is WiP.

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                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Fortinero View Post
                                  There is clearly an issue with the FCR when you got a bugged target, but in RWS, not in TWS, it happens randomly that the FCR drops the target and resets the TDC to some where the center of the screen regardless the scaling. The videos that the user Tango3B did posted in the first page are more than clear.

                                  Also when you goes to STT mode even from RWS or TWS, it happend exactly the same issue, when STT mode should be a very trusty radar mode when showing a constant target update.
                                  So, that's the main reason why in a pvp enviroment I have no remedy but to use exclusively TWS mode (when for a single a2a intercept should be more reliable the usage of RWS mode) in order to avoid this random issue happen.


                                  As I said, those two videos posted by Tango3B are enough to show this FCR RWS/STT behavior, and you can appreciate than the target did not makes any "aggresive" maneuver such a "beaming" or "notching".
                                  Track files are usless specially if you are flying in a public server, most of the time they are broken.

                                  Thank you. I can confirm everything you say. The bug is still there.


                                  Originally posted by SCPanda View Post
                                  Yeah it happened to me for many times too. I play BVR a lot so this issue occurred quite frequently. Mostly in TWS tho.

                                  I was barely able to fly since the last patch dropped due to RL work and didn't report since. Yesterday I was able to fly a few PvP sorties, though. My first sortie showed everything was working fine but then all of a sudden the bug was back. And now I do indeed observe the above mentioned behavior in TWS, too. Something is clearly wrong and we need an official statement on this FCR behavior. My two YouTube clips show the problem.
                                  Can we please have a statement from an ED Mod if this bug is already adressed?

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                                    #18
                                    A friend and I saw exactly the same behaviour over the last few days.




                                    It seems as though the radar loses the track briefly, with old updates still ghosting for a while and this causes the STT/TWS and it has to rebuild the track file.

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                                      #19
                                      Still no official statement on this bug report?

                                      Come on ED! You've got those youtube clips on page one of this thread as a proof and they showcase that bug perfectly. It seems no one from ED does even care because this thread was initially labelled as "cannot replicate"?! Yesterday I was flying on GS's Syria Server and was talking to some guys who ALL had this problem. Something needs to be done about this bug. Please have another look at this one.

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                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by HayMak3r View Post
                                        If the lock is supposed to stay when the distance changes, then this is a bug. I can repro this every single time I have a lock in single player. I have not tested in MP. I lock a target while the distance is at 80nm. it changes to 40nm, and I have to re-lock the target. Everytime..
                                        In multiplayer is the same, and it is a very annoying bug. It's the same from 40nm to 20nm. You lost the lock when you're going to shoot.

                                        BUMP!

                                        Viper update has been postponed to 23rd, @ED please give a look here.
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