Real Life AAR Experience

[Syndrome]

Reading this made me feel a little better about AAR woes for the F-16 in DCS. It also made me realize that I've been irradiating the poor KC-135 crew. When they have babies with 3 eyes, they know who to thank I guess. It looks like you can safely radar lock them to find the relative air speed up to a half a mile, but the radar needs to be shut off inside that radius. The other thing I saw was the there is a "disconnect button on the stick" that you're supposed to hit when your tank is topped off. I looked it up and the "disconnect" is the NWS button, which makes sense as they both show up on the same NWS light. I've just been ripping off the tip of the nozzle each time I guess? Also... and this is interesting, the "flight controls dampen when in refueling mode". I haven't noticed a "refueling mode", but I have been putting the Viper into CAT III when refueling and it helps.

 

Original Article Link:

https://www.sandboxx.us/blog/fighter...ial-refueling/

 

FIGHTER PILOT BREAKDOWN: AERIAL REFUELING

 

Aerial refueling is one of the more dangerous tasks fighter pilots need to master.

 

Throughout pilot training, you’re taught the biggest mistake you can make is to hit something with your aircraft—which is why the first time you refuel in the air, it can be nerve-racking. The concept is to join up with a tanker—essentially a hollowed-out airliner filled with fuel—close to within a few feet and allow the tanker to connect a boom to your jet so it can transfer fuel to your aircraft.

 

I remember refueling for the first time in the skies above western Arizona. My flight lead, who was in another F-16, and I locked up the tanker with our radars and closed to within a few thousand feet. We then started our “pre-refueling” checklist, which is surprisingly simple; first, open your refueling receptacle so the jet can accept the tankers’ fuel, and next, turn off your radar, so you’re not radiating the crew in the tanker.

 

I closed to within 50 feet, at which point the tanker extended it’s a boom and gave me clearance to proceed. The F-16 has a bubble canopy, which gives the pilot an incredible view—it feels like you’re floating in a chair with the jet strapped to your back. As I inched forward, the boom operator slowly swung the large boom several feet to my right as I glided underneath the tanker. With its 4-engines and 130-foot wingspan, the tanker extended out past my peripheral vision.

 

As I held position, I waited for the boom to connect to my jet. This was the most difficult part of the process—there cannot be any relative movement between the jets—despite both traveling at nearly 350 mph. After what felt like a minute, but in reality only a few seconds, I felt the jet momentarily shake as the boom connected with my jet and the operator called “contact” over the radio.

 

At this point, I focused on the director lights, which are two rows of lights on the underside of the tanker that help us fly in the ideal position; one lets us know whether to go up or down, the other forward or aft.

 

The key to refueling is to make tiny movements with the stick and throttle. The F-16 is incredibly maneuverable, and even though the flight controls dampen when in “refueling mode,” it’s easy to overcorrect and fall out of position. This can often trigger a disconnect from the boom requiring you to start over again, or in some cases, damage both aircraft.

 

After about 5 minutes of holding position, the boom operator told me I was topped off, so I hit the disconnect button on the stick, releasing my jet from the boom. As I moved to the tanker’s right side, I closed my refueling receptacle and my flight lead moved into position to get his fuel. Although I had only been in the air for 20 minutes, I was exhausted from the amount of focus it took.

 

[Dragon1-1]

FM is WIP, in particular there's a slight controls lag that makes the bird far more susceptible to PIO than it should be. It should switch to landing gains on opening the receptacle, but I'm not sure if that works properly yet, or even if it has landing gains in first place.

 

Also, unrelated to the Viper, the director lights are way too dim and hard to see. They should make refueling AF jets pretty easy, but I found that in many lighting conditions (i.e. anything that's not night or high noon), they're more difficult to make out than they should be.

 

BTW, you haven't been ripping the nozzle off, the boomer will disconnect you himself if you don't push the button. It's not a very good practice to rely on that, but it's not a disaster if it happens. You should definitely snooze the radar, TACAN and IFF, though. In older blocks you'd also put the radar altimeter in standby, but the Block 52 manual no longer mentions that.

[Syndrome]

FM is WIP, in particular there's a slight controls lag that makes the bird far more susceptible to PIO than it should be. It should switch to landing gains on opening the receptacle, but I'm not sure if that works properly yet, or even if it has landing gains in first place.

 

Also, unrelated to the Viper, the director lights are way too dim and hard to see. They should make refueling AF jets pretty easy, but I found that in many lighting conditions (i.e. anything that's not night or high noon), they're more difficult to make out than they should be.

 

BTW, you haven't been ripping the nozzle off, the boomer will disconnect you himself if you don't push the button. It's not a very good practice to rely on that, but it's not a disaster if it happens. You should definitely snooze the radar, TACAN and IFF, though. In older blocks you'd also put the radar altimeter in standby, but the Block 52 manual no longer mentions that.

 

Yeah I've noticed the lag, which is why I put it into CAT III as a stop gap fix until the FCS / FM are patched to remove the input lag and apparent center deadzone, or at least given an option under SPECIAL settings to remove the curve/deadzone for people not using Force Sensing Sticks. I have also noticed the dim director lights can be invisible, especially the ones at the ends, definitely makes it harder than it needs to be, and it's good to know I haven't been breaking the fuel boom. Mudspike's manual recommends using SILENT mode during AAR, but that seems like it would limit SA without Link 16 enabled. Radio comms & RWR might cover than under most normal situations, and it's not like I should be looking down at an MFD anyways.

[Dragon1-1]

You don't need Link 16 during AAR, you're looking at the tanker, anyway. Generally, you have to accept you have no SA during the entire procedure. Your wingmates might keep a lookout when holding on the tanker's wings, but generally speaking, the tanker's escorts are the ones responsible for keeping bandits off your back. You shouldn't need to worry about that yourself.

[Kenan]

Where is the Radar OFF switch in the cockpit? I assume panel on the right?

[razo+r]

Above master arm set RF switch to quiet or put Radar in STBY mode by clicking on the OSB next to the current mode and select STBY.

[Bunny Clark]

the director lights are way too dim and hard to see.

Sounds like that may actually be realistic:

:megalol:

 

[Dragon1-1]

You may be right, you can't see them at all in this video:

 

So maybe it's realistic that they're hard to see. You want to fly by your sight picture, anyway, what the lights are great at is showing you what that picture should be. The only DCS aircraft with a proper AAR tutorial is the Harrier (BalticDragon was kind enough to outright tell you what you should be looking at), so for the others, you either fly the lights, or guess.

[DerekSpeare]

....

 

Also, unrelated to the Viper, the director lights are way too dim and hard to see. They should make refueling AF jets pretty easy, but I found that in many lighting conditions (i.e. anything that's not night or high noon), they're more difficult to make out than they should be.

 

....

 

Seriously, ED...can you make a simple change to increase the BRIGHTNESS of the lights? It cannot be some overwhelming task to accomplish.

 

I've completed over 250 air refuels (in VR) in the F16 and the lights are the only position reference I use (in addition to the airspeed). It would be nice if they were brighter. :music_whistling:

 

BTW, @Mover indicated in one of his videos that refueling was somewhat easier in the real plane than in DCS. It would be cool if he ever remarked on the light brightness matter.

[Bunny Clark]

BTW, @Mover indicated in one of his videos that refueling was somewhat easier in the real plane than in DCS. It would be cool if he ever remarked on the light brightness matter.

I'd guess the primary reasons it's easier IRL are mostly game vs reality things: the ability to feel movement and acceleration, see full peripheral vision and depth perception.

 

I literally linked to Mover commenting on tanker director lighting brightness 2 posts above yours.

 

Still, I'd guess this is more of an "unintentional realism" thing mostly just caused by DCS World lighting being wonky as ever.

 

Edited October 30, 2020 by Bunny Clark
Clarification

[Dragon1-1]

Well, peripheral vision and depth perception are easy (but not cheap), just fly in VR. :) That's what I do, and it's definitely easier to fly the sight picture than in the other sim, which is pancake-only. I've heard other real pilots say the same thing, if you can refuel it on a pancake, in the real jet you'd probably find it easier. VR does seem to make the lights a bit less critical.

[bradboom]

Retired boom operator here. There are 3 ways of disconnecting to keep from ripping off the nozzle. The system automatically disconnects when the boom is near a limit...up, down, forward, aft, left or right. The boom operator has a disconnect trigger, like mentioned, and is the preferred method of disconnecting. As for the receiver pilot disconnecting, we didn’t count on them doing that, but we knew they can. We put emphasis on the boom operator disconnecting since he/she has the full view of the air refueling and can clear the boom from the receiver in a hurry.

 

Also, the lights under the jet on the -135 & KC-10 are dim IRL. I spent 20 years telling pilots “sorry, sir, the lights are full bright!” On the new KC-46 the director lights are LED, so that problem is solved!

[DerekSpeare]

So the solution is that we need a KC-46 now! :pilotfly: :joystick: :megalol:

[xnomad]

I'd just like to point out

imagine doing this in DCS? You'd tell the boom operator to shut up while you concentrate.

VR and a Virpil or equivalent joystick and it's suddenly a lot easier but not that you'd do interviews, and we don't even have the real life dangers to worry about!

[Ziptie]

I'd just like to point out

imagine doing this in DCS? You'd tell the boom operator to shut up while you concentrate.

VR and a Virpil or equivalent joystick and it's suddenly a lot easier but not that you'd do interviews, and we don't even have the real life dangers to worry about!

 

I think you might find that it actually relaxes you a little bit - you go into subconscious inputs. I try to chit chat with the fellas when I AAR on DCS, it helps.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[uri]

Also, unrelated to the Viper, the director lights are way too dim and hard to see.

 

Maybe it makes sense to repeat the director lights as a 2D element like you can with IFLOLS.

[Tom Kazansky]

 

Maybe it makes sense to repeat the director lights as a 2D element like you can with IFLOLS.

 

Ok by me if it would be just an option from the beginning. So not exactly like the IFLOLS.

[Snake122]

Although as Bradboom, Mover in the video, and others like CombatWombat in the last thread that Bradboom enlightened us in, a pop-up like IFLOLS would be unrealistic in that it would be the equivalent of unrealistically bright KC-135 lights IMO. But to each his own. I wonder if they just designed the lights to just be usable at night when you have less references.

Edit to manually add link to CombatWombat's post since my link isn't working: https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/englis...45#post6342645

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Snake122

[SUBS17]

Sometimes with inflight refueling IRL "DANIEL HAS CONTROL!"

[Ziptie]

Where is the Radar OFF switch in the cockpit? I assume panel on the right?

 

The radar toggle switch is on the armament panel (same panel as the master arm and laser arm switches). Another used mentioned to put the radar into STBY - however it is labeled as SILENT to do this. The three position switch is labeled: RF NORM / QUIET / SILENT.

 

 

See attached photo.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[Raptor05121]

I haven't noticed a "refueling mode", but I have been putting the Viper into CAT III when refueling and it helps.

 

 

 

Opening the A/R door automatically sets the gains to takeoff/landing mode

 

 

[Cupra]

AAR in the F-16 is still a pure pain... no need for a disconnect button.. you never feel connected in any way. Just layed the boom onto top of the jet going off after every small movment..

Not just the neraly not visible lights are a problem.. why can´t the tanker communicate with me? Up, down, forwad, back... is that so hard to programm? Or does DCS flights always flöy without communications?

[Ziptie]

AAR in the F-16 is still a pure pain... no need for a disconnect button.. you never feel connected in any way. Just laid the boom onto top of the jet going off after every small movement..

Not just the nearly not visible lights are a problem.. why can´t the tanker communicate with me? Up, down, forward, back... is that so hard to program? Or does DCS flights always fly without communications?

 

The talk on for contact is something that I personally feel could be of some benefit - but there is also the side that there would be a delay in the talk on for many who struggle with PIOs or simply being way too off alignment. I still feel that it could be of benefit, however being able to turn off the feature if implemented - would be a must. Personally, I don't really have an issue with AAR in the F16, I found it quite intuitive. Struggled the first two times with PIOs but have performed at least 15 now and don't have any issue getting a complete transfer of internal and external wing tanks.

 

As for how difficult it would be to implement - no idea as that is out of my realm - but if they can model an A10C to be as realistic as it is in terms of system functionality and flight dynamics of different aircraft, I'd bet they could achieve this.

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[SUBS17]

 

Opening the A/R door automatically sets the gains to takeoff/landing mode

 

 

No it goes into Refueling mode when the A/R door is opened.

[Cupra]

Ok.. I triend AAR for.. maybe 20 hours until now.. and did 1 successful... The test was just going up dand down all the time. Little more thutst, nose goes up, little less, nose come down... then the light gets green after 3 minutes and what happens... 4 - 5 seconds nothing.. then refueling starts and a moment later I am out of position.. start the game from 0 again :(

I really like the F-16, but that AAR makes it that I will stop using it anymore... with Hornet or Tomcat, no problems, A-10 works too...