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  • #16
    Originally posted by Fri13 View Post
    Why does anything in DCS be higher than 8-bit files? Most displays players has are 8-bit capable only, and 10-bit is even today fairly less capable.
    Even today a most used display resolution is Full HD, a 1920x1080.

    Sure it helps to have a 32-bit colors for gradients, but well done 8-bit is not so bad compared to higher. But that is mainly for gradients like a skies and sun, but not so much for the aircrafts itself.

    Need to try out this mod as it is interesting idea to downscale all to 8-bit that is just possible be used as such.
    Exactly. And to me, the texture size is overkill too. We're talking about 4k texture... on 4k monitor.

    4k texture for diffuse might improve quality but normal maps are just supplement to diffuse texture. For rivets, bevels on gauge dials, grooves on knobs... 4k normal maps for those is just overkill.
    The difference in size grows exponentially with each power of two. It's minor difference between 256x256 map and 512x512 map. But difference between 2048x2048 and 4096x4096 is huge.
    Last edited by Taz1004; 10-17-2020, 07:59 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by dorianR666 View Post
      i dont know whats in the fourth channel, but even if its unused it doesnt matter really. GPUs usually internally access image data as 32bit per pixel for performance reasons (unlike 24bit, its a power of two which is practical for computating pixel offsets and such). truly 24bit textures can decrease performance or even not be supported by the GPU. for example, some opengl implementations convert 24bit textures into 32bit automatically under the hood for these reasons.

      24bit textures are ugly from technical viewpoint.
      thanks for the heads up. i was not aware of that.

      however taz's point is still valid: 600mb of normal maps is madness. supersizing the albedo maps may show on very high resolution displays, but normal maps not so much.

      please, ED have a look at that. or fix VRram management, or -even better- do both!
      My personal wishlist after 2 years with dcs: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=216873

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      • #18
        Yep.

        I hope this time ED pays attention, it's a well presented report on a real issue.
        Last time that something similar to this was discussed it was moved (and forgotten) to the "Wishlist" forums:
        https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=283674

        The normal/bump mask overkill sizes, also unnecessary in so many Diffuse textures, and also DDS textures saved as DXT5 when DXT1 would have been correct (i.e, using transparency settings when there's none in use), are on the verge of absurd in a game/sim title that is already extremely resource hungry.

        There's a lot of neglecting in regards to DDS formats, sizes and (as Daz clearly shows here) also bit-depth in normal maps.
        I don't even think it's a matter of discussion, as changing this will bring only benefits for everyone, there are no downsides.
        Last edited by LucShep; 10-18-2020, 12:01 AM.
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        • #19
          +1
          ED, please. Across the board, including 3rd party developers.
          - Jack of many DCS modules, master of none.
          - Personal wishlist: F-15A, F-4S Phantom II, JAS 39A Gripen, SAAB 35 Draken, F-104 Starfighter, Panavia Tornado IDS.


          | MSI Z87-G45 Gaming | i5-4670K @ 4.3Ghz | 16Gb DDR3 1600 | Asus GTX 1070 Strix OC | Samsung 850 Evo 250 & 500Gb | 40" Sony FullHD | Oculus Rift CV1 | Thrustmaster Warthog Stick (19.5cm extension) & Throttle | MFG Crosswind | Windows 7-64 |

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          • #20
            +1
            B450 Gaming Pro Carbon, Ryzen 3600 @4.3GHz, 32Gb DDR4 3600MHz, GTX1070TI, CH Stuff, Oculus CV1

            Wishlist:
            AH-64
            F-15E
            F-117A

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            • #21
              Not bit related, but do you know how I can find and edit the normal textures? All the normals I find are either pinkish or or greenish.

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              • #22
                I just downloaded paint.net for that reason alone. Photoshop is what most peeps use but it's $$$.

                https://www.getpaint.net/download.html

                Any other suggestions welcome, but pain.net actually supports all compression formats.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by EasyEB View Post
                  Not bit related, but do you know how I can find and edit the normal textures? All the normals I find are either pinkish or or greenish.
                  Cockpit:
                  Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\A-10C_2\Cockpit\Textures

                  Exterior:
                  Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\CoreMods\aircraft\A-10\Textures


                  Exterior normals are greenish because blue channel is black for some reason, while standard is to leave it white. I'm not sure how dcs engine handles blue channel, but it doesn't really matter.

                  Anyway, I agree with OP, lot of DCS textures contain additional channel of data that serves no purpose no matter how it's being compressed, and while we can fix it locally, IC makes life more difficult. Even worse, dds alpha channel cannot be sampled into rgb compression, it require its own set of data, so you end up with double bpp.

                  And please, please, please, do not ever use .jpg for textures.
                  Last edited by =4c=Nikola; 10-18-2020, 01:21 PM.
                  Do not expect fairness.
                  The times of chivalry and fair competition are long gone.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by EasyEB View Post
                    Not bit related, but do you know how I can find and edit the normal textures? All the normals I find are either pinkish or or greenish.
                    You can use Nvidia's Texture Tools. Standalone version.
                    https://developer.nvidia.com/nvidia-...tools-exporter


                    Another option is Microsoft Visual Studio. You can get the Community version for free altho it'll take quite a bit of disk space.
                    https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/community/

                    You need to follow this install guide and install correct components.
                    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/vis...o?view=vs-2019

                    I believe components required for texture editing are:
                    .NET desktop development and Game development with C++


                    You can do resizing and resampling just within Visual Studio. It does have editing but very rudimentary.
                    You can open texture, save as uncompressed image format such as TGA. Then edit from program like Gimp. Reimport to Visual Studio and save as dds file.

                    Keep in mind BC7 compression is newest and most efficient. But I noticed some of DCS texture require them to be BC3. Usually older textures like Caucasus ground.

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                    • #25
                      Also, I believe GIMP has DDS plugin too but I never used it so don't know how well it works.

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                      • #26
                        GIMP doesn't support the latest such as BC7.

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                        • #27
                          You can also do the old school way by batch conversion (instead of one by one).
                          Pick whatever group of textures you want to edit, convert them to TGA, then after editing (resizing, etc, whatever) and saving them, convert them to DDS texture format again.

                          AMD COMPRESSONATOR (v1.50.1731) is what I'd recommend for this, also if you got no DDS plugin. It's available in both 32bit and 64bit app installer format.
                          It's not recent so does not support latest BC6 and BC7 format, but it's still widely used, a simple and complete tool.
                          There are plenty options for DDS file formats, delivers fast conversion and quality compression no matter the system.
                          PS: a very quick guide (image example) on how to do batch convert to DDS format is found inside the downloaded ZIP - procedure is identical for other texture formats (TGA, BMP, PNG, TIF, etc).
                          Last edited by LucShep; 10-18-2020, 09:17 PM. Reason: added link for Compressonator 1.50
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                          Intel W3690 (6c/12t) @4.5GHz | Asus P6X58D-E | 24GB DDR3 1866 CL10 (6x 4GB) | RX 5700 XT 8GB | 256GB(OS) + 500GB SSDs | 1TB + 3TB HDDs | CX 650W PSU | 32'' 1080P 75Hz/60Hz (IPS) | M-Audio USB + HD-668B | X52 Pro + TrackHat (w/OpenTrack)

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                          • #28
                            Good thing about Visual Studio... and the reason why I use it even tho I have Photoshop is because it tells you what format and compression the file is already in. Like the last image I posted on second post of this thread.

                            Photoshop with Nvidia plugin doesn't tell you that. So if you open the dds files with plugins, it may do "Open As" into 8 bit format (which is Photoshop default) and you might think they're already 8 bit files.
                            Last edited by Taz1004; 10-18-2020, 08:49 PM.

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