[OPTION IN NEXT UPDATE] Helmet mounted sight in VR - shouldn't it be a monocle?

[Flamin_Squirrel]

In VR, helmet sight symbology appears in both eyes, but shouldn't it be right eye only?

[Ziptie]

In VR, helmet sight symbology appears in both eyes, but shouldn't it be right eye only?

 

Yes it should, just like NVG’s should be a monocle as well - but they aren’t they way either. In the Hornet, you can choose whether it is displayed to the left/right or both eyes.

 

Not sure I’d really like it to be in a single eye - as things rendering in only one eye in VR (i.e the clouds and other things that they currently have an issue with) is quite brutal. My .02

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[Snoopy]

just like NVG’s should be a monocle as well -

 

Actually no, the NVGs used by A-10 pilots isn’t a monocle.

[Ziptie]

Actually no, the NVGs used by A-10 pilots isn’t a monocle.

 

Excellent, so we have that correctly modeled for VR. Seems like the screen mirror shows a monocle - chalk that one up as win for us 3D’ers! Thanks for the info Snoopy.

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[nessuno0505]

The devs should be informed about this since there's a wishlist in which they say they'll add the option to be one eye only as - according to someone posting pics - so should be:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=287543

[Fri13]

I want monocle, I want FC3 aircrafts sights as well be monocle. When they are on both eyes it makes you look cross and it is difficult to have a 3D effect.

 

Monocles like in KA-50 are great, and in hornet it was nice to get eventually.

[Snoopy]

Excellent, so we have that correctly modeled for VR. Seems like the screen mirror shows a monocle - chalk that one up as win for us 3D’ers! Thanks for the info Snoopy.

 

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

 

I didn’t say that either, the HMCS goes over one eye (the pilots dominate eye) aka monocle. The NVGs we use have two tubes but it should look like a “circle” and not cover the entire VR view.

[Foka]

Having HMCS in one eye requires dozens of hours of training. I don't know if it's a good solution for a game.

 

I recommend reading "Apache" by Ed Macy - AH-64 pilot, who describes problems he encountered with that in details. (After training he was able to read two book simultaneously - each with different eye.)

[Nealius]

The HMD had a right eye/left eye/both option from day one in the Hornet and Viper. Not including it at launch with the "Tank Killer" is a complete oversight.

[BuzzU]

The HMD had a right eye/left eye/both option from day one in the Hornet and Viper. Not including it at launch with the "Tank Killer" is a complete oversight.

 

I don't understand those settings. They both work for me and i'm blind in my right eye.

[Nealius]

I don't understand those settings. They both work for me and i'm blind in my right eye.

 

This is for VR. On a regular screen it won't make a difference.

[BuzzU]

Ah ok.

[Wrench]

I second that we should have a one eye setting. I'm fully prepared to assume that ED always

planned on adding it in, so I'm happy to wait a bit for that to come down the pipeline.

 

As for Foka's assertion:

Having HMCS in one eye requires dozens of hours of training. I don't know if it's a good solution for a game.

 

I recommend reading "Apache" by Ed Macy - AH-64 pilot, who describes problems he encountered with that in details. (After training he was able to read two book simultaneously - each with different eye.)

 

While I'm certain that the source you reference is accurate, I can only assume that that's one pilot's issues and not something that would affect everyone. I've used the JHMCS a lot, in one eye only since launch, and never had an issue. I gave it a shot in both eyes just to see if it made a difference for me and it really didn't. Just like with everything else, every person is an individual and will have different reactions to the same stimulus.

 

I fully support having a 'both eyes' option for those who need it, but for at least some of us, it isn't necessary at all.

[nessuno0505]

If we'll have the three options, as it seems to be, it's the best thing for everyone.

[Fri13]

Having HMCS in one eye requires dozens of hours of training. I don't know if it's a good solution for a game.

 

I recommend reading "Apache" by Ed Macy - AH-64 pilot, who describes problems he encountered with that in details. (After training he was able to read two book simultaneously - each with different eye.)

 

 

Couldn't resist....

 

Seriously, with a one eye having overlay of data is not a problematic for most people but some really do have challenge with it.

[Eldur]

Having HMCS in one eye requires dozens of hours of training. I don't know if it's a good solution for a game.

 

I recommend reading "Apache" by Ed Macy - AH-64 pilot, who describes problems he encountered with that in details. (After training he was able to read two book simultaneously - each with different eye.)

 

Crazy stuff. I actually have problems reading a single book already. This box I'm typing to approximately looks like this for me:

 

 

Tried to simulate it with a glass bottleneck (for guitar playing) and some unsharpen filters. Think away the bottleneck ring and the refraction and it's pretty close, at least for one eye only. With both together, it's actually not as bad as they help each other out. But still a massive chore. And yes, I'm really flying DCS with that vision, even in VR, which actually is a lot easier than in pancake.

 

I'm glad we have to option to put the Hammicks on both eyes in the Hornet an Viper and I hope that comes here as well, so we can either have the real deal or a decent substitute for the ones who're simply not allowed to fly IRL.

[Nealius]

Dozens of hours? Surely it's individual. It took me all of 5 minutes to get used to it in the Hornet.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

There's a specific reason why the Apache is a challenge to get used to:

 

“Night flying is the hardest challenge. The nose of the Apache contains the Modernized Target Acquisition Designation Sight (MTADS) and the Pilot Night Vision System (PNVS) which view the world in infrared heat energy and beam in image on to your Helmet Mounted Display. You see two perspectives: ‘night’ in your left eye and ‘day in your right. You train which eye you give dominance to.”

 

All the helmet sights we have so far just display a bit of symbology, so very different.

[some1]

VR kits lack Depth of Field (everything is focused on the same plane at about 1.5-2 meters away), so having HMD in one eye is not a super realistic experience either. It's harder on your brain than it really should be.

Edited October 5, 2020 by some1

[BIGNEWY]

We will be adding the option in the special options tab in a future patch.

 

For me I will be using both eyes, otherwise I get eye strain in VR

[Fri13]

VR kits lack Depth of Field (everything is focused on the same plane at about 1.5-2 meters away), so having HMD in one eye is not a super realistic experience either. It's harder on your brain than it really should be.

 

In VR the "infinity" is at the 2 meters as you say, but it is not fixed in your eye. You can focus closer than that.

 

So if we have an distant object, it is positioned on the screens so that eyes will cross at 2 meters distance. But if we have something closer, we can calculate it's 3D position by separating it differently between screens and it appears closer and our eyes needs to look cross at shorter distance. But it will not focus at close distance as the focus distance has not changed from that 2 meters.

 

So we can get the look that something is at close, but we can't change focus as we have limited DOF in our eye, why things gets blurrier at close distance.

 

The JHMCS/Scorpio (HMS) is anyways a device that has optics to draw superimposed image to infinity, not on distance where it projected screen is.

Otherwise pilot would be focusing at close range few centimeters from their eye and never see a(age sight) anything and lose a target or information depending what to look.

 

So we can make it realistically by having it at "infinity" (2 meters) but to feel it as it would be on our face.

The trick is not to focus on extra display but look naturally, and they get superimposed.

[some1]

So if we have an distant object, it is positioned on the screens so that eyes will cross at 2 meters distance. But if we have something closer, we can calculate it's 3D position by separating it differently between screens and it appears closer and our eyes needs to look cross at shorter distance. But it will not focus at close distance as the focus distance has not changed from that 2 meters.

 

What you describe is a depth perception thanks to stereoscopic vision and that doesn't work if an object is displayed only in one eye. In real life, even with one eye closed, you can still roughly estimate distance thanks to the changes in eye focus between objects. You can't do that in VR as with one eye closed, the other eye just sees a flat screen with all objects at the same focus distance (1-2 meters, manufacturers don't give the exact number).

 

So with the HMD screen displayed in one eye in VR, your mind has no option than to think the display is close to your head, where your eyes are focused (1-2 meters). It would not react like that in real life, with HMD screen focused on far away plane, basically infinity.

 

The JHMCS/Scorpio (HMS) is anyways a device that has optics to draw superimposed image to infinity, not on distance where it projected screen is.

 

Yep, and 1-2 meters offered by VR headsets is not "infinity". It's just a compromise so that our minds can be tricked into depth perception by only using stereoscopic vision. It works fine in most cases, as stereoscopic vision is our main source of depth perception in real life. But it hits the system limitation with things like HUDs, HMDs and the likes.

 

That's why having the HMD screen in one eye only is not quite as realistic experience as you may think, and harder on your eyes than it would be in real life.

[Nealius]

VR kits lack Depth of Field (everything is focused on the same plane at about 1.5-2 meters away), so having HMD in one eye is not a super realistic experience either. It's harder on your brain than it really should be.

 

Depth of Field is a function of camera's aperture sizes, and doesn't exist in VR headsets except for artificial generation (that is itself unrealistic). It isn't harder on your brain in VR because your brain is focusing on 3d objects rendered in a 3d space just as it would in real life.

[some1]

It isn't harder on your brain in VR because your brain is focusing on 3d objects rendered in a 3d space just as it would in real life.

 

There is no "3D" in VR if an object is shown only in one eye. In such situation you can't rely on eye accommodation to judge distance, like you would in real life. Your brain can only "guess" where an object like HMD overlay is located in space.

 

That's why at least some people get the weird sensation with HMD shown in one eye, that it is not in the correct place, or it's slapped too close to your face. Of course you can "train" yourself to use it, but it's not that hard in reality as it is in the VR.

[Nealius]

If that were true, then closing one eye and trying to use the HUD would cause the same problem. It doesn't.

 

The problem is that people aren't used to having two different images at the same time. It's literally no different than training yourself to shoot a rifle with both eyes open.