Habu23 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 (edited) Hello all, I am editing this post to reflect that my below feedback and video was positively received and the ED team told me that they are confident they know the source of the airspeed bleed off and G availability issues seen in DCS A-10 v1. All of the issues below are being addressed, and with that, all of the things that I think can be improved with DCS: A-10C II. Thank you for listening and thank you all for your support! Requested improvements: Additional issues noted not covered above or in video: -IFF Panel default Switches -Fuel Flows Override additional thrust -Gun Dispersion -Default MFD setups -Default CCIP Gun Cross vs. Reticle -TGP Mask Zone too aggressive Threads on the issue: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=274463 https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=282672&highlight=thrust https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=246288&highlight=thrust https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=206933&highlight=thrust https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=171682&highlight=thrust Habu Edited September 5, 2020 by Habu23 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawk2174 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 I'll just quote what i've said in the past as my view on the matter hasn't changed Lets hope ED takes a serious look at this. I wanted to reopen a discussion on the A10 FM on the forums, it seems that the road to getting fixes is going to be a long one. Both Habu (a rlf active duty A10 piolt) and I have been very suspicious of the A10's FM for a long time. Habu has been on the forums for a while now since he got assigned to an A10C unit and started talking about the differences in performance. Recently however we started to make a big push for fixes especially considering that the GAU-8 dispersion finally got mostly fixed (something else he has been saying is wrong for a long time) Now with the FM we believe the biggest issue is some combination of drag especially at high aoa and/or lift. With a secondary concern being engine thrust. -----------Drag-------------- Habu's notes after testing the FM and comparing it to the docs he has from his unit in response to this quick vid I made as a baseline. Engine ------------------- So something that has been disused a lot is the engine performance while habu and I don't think its the main cause for the performance issues it does seem some parameters are off. Now Habu shared with me an image he took while flying of the instrument panel, now he didn't want me sharing the image on a public forum but I can share the results. Take note we matched the ingame conditions to the rlf one as much as possible for pressure, temperature, and winds. The picture however was shared with 9L so it should be in ED's hands. Current in Game Temps in DCS are low and the max temps marked in the real jet are higher - Just under 800 DCS and ~805-850 rlf PSI is quite high - DCS ~94 and ~70 rlf Fan is low, now this is important as this gauge has been described to me as being representative of the thrust being put out by the engine. - DCS ~82-83 and ~86 rlf Fuel flow is high in DCS - DCS ~3650 and ~3350 rlf Now I know its been debated the engine parameters for a long time but I hope this can shed some light on the issue. -------------------------- Well at this point we don't know who your piolts are or if they've even really tested the jet. Habu spent well over an hour doing tests of the jet and comparing to the actual docs he has from his unit. Not only that but at this point there's been what 3 other rlf piolts who've all said the same thing and a few crew chiefs... like I'm sorry but I don't see how its even possible that your piolts can even say its accurate if they've actually tested it and cared about how accurate the FM is. People who I know personally who I've been sitting in discord with as they've tested the FM and compared to the docs they got from the unit they fly with say its wrong often very wrong... Not to mention the actual image he took while in the jet shows with out a doubt that the ingame engines are off. Ontop of that when compared to the A-10A-1-1 document DCS is off as well. -------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted August 31, 2020 ED Team Share Posted August 31, 2020 We have already acknowledged that we are looking into drag issues with stores. Thanks. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nighthawk2174 Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Understood and I hope it comes soon (and to more jets than just the A10), but even while clean (as in no weapons but pylons still attached) the jet is still under-performing the G-loading charts and is less stable while doing it then video evidence would indicate. - Doing this in game right now would cause massive instability and wing rocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzU Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 If they fix the FM on the A-10C II. I wonder if it will be applied to the A-10C too? We shouldn't have to pay to get the correct FM. Buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 If they fix the FM on the A-10C II. I wonder if it will be applied to the A-10C too? We shouldn't have to pay to get the correct FM. Fixed FM would very likely be for the A model and both versions of the C model. v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website | v303rd Fighter Group Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted August 31, 2020 ED Team Share Posted August 31, 2020 If they fix the FM on the A-10C II. I wonder if it will be applied to the A-10C too? We shouldn't have to pay to get the correct FM. Any fixes, unless related to new features obviously should be shared between both. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzU Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 Good to hear. Thanks. Buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidRider Posted August 31, 2020 Share Posted August 31, 2020 It just feels sluggish, not being able to pull decent AOA. Hope they fix it so it better matches the real thing. Thank OP for pursuing this further. Great module will hopefully become better. You can do it ED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted August 31, 2020 ED Team Share Posted August 31, 2020 The jet behaves like an absolute pig compared to real life. This became a pain point when I attempted to FAC(A) my buddies in the Syria map and I could not exceed an energy state of 180 KIAS at 10-15K with a relatively clean loadout. I've known about this issue and posted in some threads but I just need to make this known. Hey, can you give me a nice clean short track of this if you could, just to show exactly what you are experiencing and how it looks in the sim? I will add it to the report, with your description. Thanks. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habu23 Posted September 1, 2020 Author Share Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) Hi Nineline, Here are the following issues I see with DCS: A-10C v1: Hopefully this all helps. Habu/Force Edited September 4, 2020 by Habu23 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David OC Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 Hi Nineline, Below are the following highlights of what needs to be fixed. :music_whistling: Be nice if it could be looked at. Thanks i7-7700K OC @ 5Ghz | ASUS IX Hero MB | ASUS GTX 1080 Ti STRIX | 32GB Corsair 3000Mhz | Corsair H100i V2 Radiator | Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe 500G SSD | Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD | Corsair HX850i Platinum 850W | Oculus Rift | ASUS PG278Q 27-inch, 2560 x 1440, G-SYNC, 144Hz, 1ms | VKB Gunfighter Pro Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted September 1, 2020 ED Team Share Posted September 1, 2020 @Habu, thats exactly what I was looking for, thanks so much, that will be helpful to communicate issues that need looked at, and others that have been hanging around for a while. Thanks again. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frederf Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 IFF M4 Code Knob starts at ZERO, suggest A IFF M4 Code Knob doesn't require pull to set ZERO (see F-5E) Emergency Jettison button is a toggle instead of momentary when activated by keyboard/button CCRP Rockets especially illumination, height over target, wind compensation (similar LUU-2) Preference === HARS latitude/MVAR to initial latitude/MVAR GunPAC not armed (flight behavior) Volumes, lights not initialized full value Fire handles hold to pull (accident protection) User preference file for weapon profiles, EW scheme LUU-19 ADI pointer stowed default Review RWR threat-CMS program associations PPP pylon removal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habu23 Posted September 2, 2020 Author Share Posted September 2, 2020 Thank you all for your feedback! Also I had a snip it about the IFF panel that I forgot to add in the video, but what he is saying above ^^^^ I endorse as well. Habu [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Worrazen Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) We have already acknowledged that we are looking into drag issues with stores. Thanks. Sure I understand it feels like pressure, but I think he wanted to sum it up and revise it and put it up for attention because of the fresh new video. I do this *all* the time myself and it's never meant to demand some response, I apologize if that's how it felt all along. Hopefully it's not viewed as pressure, it is just infact revisal of what was said to be more coherent and well written. Due to my busy nature for the past year I many times end up writing some stuff off-the-cuff around DCS in the evening and waking up later in the morning or a few days later to find out I didn't do a good enough job at writing that and I have to re-word and/or repost it and that kinda ends up in more posts and threads sprinkled over the place. I admit this is a bad habit and I'm not doing it on purpose, on the other hand ideas/points don't all come out to the conscious memory and I'm forced to do a follow up once I remember other points hours or days later. This hiatus from DCS I'm now still on for over a month is infact the solution to that bad habit, I rather focus on other chores and come back with more polished posts/threads. But I personally appreciated this post bringing it up to my attention again, along with the video helps a lot to put this stuff in perspective, I enjoy such geeky videos very much whatever it is about. Edited September 3, 2020 by Worrazen Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted September 3, 2020 ED Team Share Posted September 3, 2020 We are talking directly to Habu now, as well I went over his video point for point and added any reports to Jira that were not already there. Thanks. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 We are talking directly to Habu now, as well I went over his video point for point and added any reports to Jira that were not already there. Thanks. That’s great to hear! v303d Fighter Group Discord | Virtual 303d Fighter Group Website | v303rd Fighter Group Twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outlaw24 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 That’s great to hear! Same here, I'm really looking forward to the release of this upgrade :thumbup: Spoiler: MSI Z790 Carbon WIFI, i9 14900KF, 64GB DDR4, MSI RTX 4090, Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle, VKB Gunfighter Ultimate MCG Pro w/200mm Extension, Winwing Orion Rudder Pedals W/damper, UTC MK II Pro, Virpil TCS Plus Collective, Dell AW3418DW Gsync monitor, 970 Pro M2 1TB (for DCS), Playseat Air Force Seat, KW-980 Jetseat, Vaicom Pro, 3X TM Cougar with Lilliput 8" screens. Tek Creations panels and controllers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzU Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 Best news yet. Let's get the Hog as accurate as possible. Only a real pilot like Habu can help get that done. Buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxOne007 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 Best news yet. Let's get the Hog as accurate as possible. Only a real pilot like Habu can help get that done. So can maintainers/crew chiefs who work on the jet :music_whistling: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzU Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 So can maintainers/crew chiefs who work on the jet :music_whistling: Yes, of course. I didn't mean to leave you out. :) Buzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aluminum Donkey Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 I am a current and qualified A-10 pilot *** Not like you need an armchair pilot like myself to tell you this, but that's pretty badass :) Anyway, it's widely regarded that the A-10 module in DCS World does not perform and handle exactly like the real thing. It was done this way deliberately because either the aircraft manufacturer, or the US Government, or both, refuse to allow it. Being an attack aircraft, it just has to reasonably represent the overall 'feel' of the A-10. You can fly it around and blow sh*t up like a real A-10, but it's not a true simulation of the airplane in the flight performance sense. This is disappointing to all of us since that's what we're in it for, but since you're in the military... well, you know, Big Gubbamint makes dem rules, and everyone else follows dem rules, or somebody's gonna have a bad day. DCS World is a very convincing combat flight game for those of us that like that sort of thing. But, despite being spoken about as such, it is *not* actually a high-fidelity simulation that is suitable for training real-life combat pilots. It's for general public entertainment, not for you (or your wing-buddies) to use as a training tool for flying real combat missions in a specific aircraft type. It's supposed to be pretty good, and is very convincing--but a "simulation" it ain't--not in the actual military sense. That's why the DCS A-10 doesn't fly like your actual real-life Hog, it's a part of the agreement that Eagle Dynamics has with the real A-10 manufacturer and/or US military/government/fat cats in suits that said "no". Your Powers-That-Be don't want terrorists using a video game, of all things, to train them to steal A-10s and use them against the US of A. Fair enough, I say. All of us here appreciate your input, though! Peace and happy warfare AD Kit: B550 Aorus Elite AX V2, Ryzen 7 5800X w/ Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 SE, 2 x 16GB Kingston Fury DDR4 @3600MHz C16, Gigabyte RTX 3070 Windforce 8GB, EVGA SuperNova 750 G2 PSU, HP Omen 32" 2560x1440, Thrustmaster Cougar HOTAS fitted with Leo Bodnar's BU0836A controller. --Flying is the art of throwing yourself at the ground, and having all the rules and regulations get in the way! If man was meant to fly, he would have been born with a lot more money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmy Posted September 4, 2020 Share Posted September 4, 2020 When and Where was it ever posted that the sim is de-rated per agreement with the government and/or the manufacturer? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] http://www.476vfightergroup.com/content.php High Quality Aviation Photography For Personal Enjoyment And Editorial Use. www.crosswindimages.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted September 4, 2020 ED Team Share Posted September 4, 2020 IMHO this should get fixed on the existing hog before we even think about buying a new one. And let's be honest, the experience made with bugs and inaccuracies on the current version aren't exactly encouraging. That is your own personal choice, there is no need to come here stating that, it comes off as you campaigning to get other people not to buy it, this is the wrong forum for that. This thread is about Habu helping improve things on an already excellent module, no need to play it up as its bug-riddled and inaccurate. The A-10C and been the flagship module for almost 10 years now, and these improvements will only make a great module better. All the points that Habu has made are now reported internally, least the ones that were not already there. As well, we have a priority list based on feedback from him, our USAF customers, and user feedback. So while I understand your desire to see things change, we are doing as much as we can on it now. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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