Ideas for creating interesting and realistic flightplans in ME?!

[twistking]

Hello,

i am looking for inspirations and know/how on how to set up interesting and semi-realistic flightplans for the A-10c.

 

I tend to just built my flightplans from waypoints, where waypoints are both actual waypoints for navigation as well as target points for known targets. I would assume that this is not perfectly realistic, as i imagine that known targets would generally not be put into the main flight plan?!

I also experimented with "initial points" that you put down in the editor and then built your own flightplan from them in the CDU, but this felt like a weird workaround and is probably also not realistic.

Also what is the intended use for the init points in the scope of DCS? Are they for mostly for JTAC related tasking?

 

I know it's a very broad question and i don't look for specific answers, just maybe some ideas how to use the limited options of the ME to built a flightplan that's somewhat realistic in regards to preplanned targets and general layout.

 

Thanks.

[feefifofum]

Take a look at some departures/approaches for an idea of what those points are and some ways they're used: https://www.airnav.com/airport/KLSV

 

The folks over at the 476th have been kind enough to reproduce the RW navigation charts for our maps in DCS if you'd like to practice some of the real approaches/departures:

http://www.476vfightergroup.com/downloads.php?s=b48be2825f30bdb5ad550647130ec04b&do=cat&id=54

 

[twistking]

@feefifofum Thank you! I will have a look at all of this, when i've got some time to spent. Seems like a lot to digest. Very much appreciated though. It will surely help me a lot.

[KlarSnow]

I dunno anything about A-10 specifics, but in general to make "realistic" flightplans you have to decide is your mission going to simulate a training mission (red flag, flying out of a base just to go to a range, not actual combat, etc...) or an actual combat mission.

 

A training mission is probly going to have much more involved/defined admin phases of flight. Think following a specific departure procedure like out of vegas, flying to an entry/exit point for the airspace you are getting to, and adhering to specific altitudes and restrictions.

 

Combat missions are generally much much more flexible. The departure procedure is usually something like, "make a right hand turn direct to the departure point, climb and maintain X altitude". The RTB is also usually pretty straightforward. There will be a smattering of named points in each AOR that will be familiar that you may use when crossing borders or marshalling. Those will generally not change day to day, and would be the same in an AOR the entire time you are there.

 

The other side of it is that all this point control and procedure flying is usually IFR, if your mission is VFR, especially with A-10's or Helo's, its pretty standard to takeoff and hit a visual departure point and then just navigate visually at a VFR altitude to and from the airfield and/or the overhead.

 

Not A-10 Specific, but when we flew to the Range at RAF Lakenheath in the strike eagle your flightplan might just be like 3 points. the 2 targets you were planning on hitting at the range, which because of how IFR worked in the UK, you just took off and asked for direct the range, then got told proceed direct, so you flew straight there, checked in with the ranger, did your stuff, then the last point would be the IAF for the ILS. You would have presaved points for the 3 visual entry points to the overhead if you didn't want to come up initial for whatever reason. But that was just normal cause you flew out there all the time. Oh we are going to charlie to downwind, load up steerpoint 210 thats steering to charlie... etc.

 

In the Flying in the states your departure is just a turnout to a point about 10-15 miles away from the field, and then usually a point or two in a straight line to whatever airspace you are going to. Once in the airspace its whatever your mission is, and then after that its usually just a point or two to get you as directly back to the field as you can. Same stuff about if theres a particular overhead or initial point, you would just hand load a presaved listpoint, instead of having it be a part of the "flightplan". and you can always navigate to tacan fixes or cancel and fly VFR to and from places as well.

 

In combat it was usually just turn out to the exit point, and then as assigned. Again we didnt usually have super defined flightplans cause you could get sent anywhere, just like 500 preplanned points ready to go, and the ability to quickly throw out a rough grid for a killbox they assigned us to into a markpoint.

 

if you are doing a super specific CAS op in an A-10, then you might have a slew of IP's and ingress/egress points that are specific to that particular mission or area. Again things that probly dont change too much in a day to day op, but only as the operation evolves. If you are on call or doing more old school low level stuff, get to an IP and then do some visual flying. The A-10 is primarily a VFR jet especially in the areas that it excels in. And that means use waypoints and the flightplan as a reference, but also dont be afraid to get where you are going just by navigating off the map visually if you have to.

[twistking]

@KlarSnow Thank you very much for all that info. Very interesting!

 

Only thing i'm still confused about, is how preplanned targets would be handled. Could one see a strike target as a waypoint in the flightplan?

Do strike aircraft have their own data format for storing and showing preplanned targets?

I wonder if we are missing such features in the A-10c. On the A-10c preplanned targets are probably not an important feature, but preplanned threats (SAMs etc.) surely are. Shouldn't we have access to such things?

[Ziptie]

[uSER=71438]Only thing i'm still confused about, is how preplanned targets would be handled. Could one see a strike target as a waypoint in the flightplan?

 

Do strike aircraft have their own data format for storing and showing preplanned targets?

 

I wonder if we are missing such features in the A-10c. On the A-10c preplanned targets are probably not an important feature, but preplanned threats (SAMs etc.) surely are. Shouldn't we have access to such things?

 

 

You can make a flight plan - and you can make target points.

 

 

With the CDU in FLT PLAN position, it will show waypoints you have setup as part of the flight plan.

 

With the CDU in MISSION position, it will show the flight plan waypoints, as well as the target waypoints (and airfield locations).

 

You can enter this data, via the CDU while on the ground (or in the air).

 

Unsure whether you can set this up via the Mission Editor, as I don't every use the Mission Editor - lucky to have a server I fly in where the mission is truly dynamic and things are very fluid (i.e constantly evolving threat).

 

 

Cheers,

 

Ziptie

[Emmy]

Take a look at some departures/approaches for an idea of what those points are and some ways they're used: https://www.airnav.com/airport/KLSV

 

The folks over at the 476th have been kind enough to reproduce the RW navigation charts for our maps in DCS if you'd like to practice some of the real approaches/departures:

http://www.476vfightergroup.com/down...b&do=cat&id=54

 

And if you download our NTTR Mission, then all the points shown on the charts are already in the CDU...

 

http://www.476vfightergroup.com/down...do=file&id=403

 

And if you install our Range mod, then all the ranges in the NTTR (and I do mean all...) will be populated with the actual objects as they are laid out in the real world:

 

http://www.476vfightergroup.com/down...do=file&id=287

[KlarSnow]

I cant speak for other aircraft, but in the strike eagle we would just load em up as steerpoints, there wasnt a separate way of loading preplanned targets in their own "target point" thing. There was a way to load preplanned sets of targets for JDAM's in particular, but that didnt provide "steering" or affect the flightplan. But we almost never used it, because it was cumbersome. much simpler to just drop the lat longs into a steerpoint, and then transfer it into the bomb that way.

 

Other jets probly have their own methods or techniques, but really whatever works is a valid technique. Sometimes there were two-three different ways of doing this stuff, and everybody had their own preference.

 

If it was just a few targets, or we didnt have time to boot up the mission planning computer and reload the mission files, we would just take the coordinates on a sheet of paper and hand jam them. If we had time, we would load them all in to a second flight plan (if it was more than a couple of targets) and then use that flight plan to target things. Or if somebody was feeling adventurous maybe we try and use the preplanned JDAM thing, but since nobody ever used it, and it wasnt as "flexible" as the other methods, that usually required some studying up on how it worked prior, and some digging around the mission planning software to figure out how to load it.

[twistking]

thanks for all the replies. very much appreciated!

 

@KlarSnow Nice to know that the professional have the same "issues" with some workflows and sometimes just stick to what they know best. Makes me feel better about some of my weird habits in the a-10c...

[Puma]

There is nothing wrong with having “target” waypoints in a flight plan. Establishing a common naming convention will help clarify what is what. I’ll often use nav points, then CP.1 IP.1 TGT.1 as waypoint names. Toss in friendly positions too, but the risk is obvious, so ad a hint: JTAC.1XXXXXXX.

 

I find for most missions, a single flight plan does well, but if you want to try something or handle a more complex mission or multiple options, remember you can have multiple flight plans in the A-10 CDU. So have on for ingress, one for tgt.area, on for egress and one for divert.

[twistking]

@Puma thansk for the reply.

different flightplans would be a nice way to do it indeed, but those cannot be prepared in the mission editor unfortuantely...

[Wrench]

For the time being, until we get the DTC update, There is the 'Prepare Mission' function. This is in the ME when you go to the 'Fly' drop down menu. A lot of people don't know that this allows you to preset your aircraft. If you start a mission in Prepare mode, any avionics settings you change will be saved in the mission file on exit. So in this way, you can make a flightplan in the ME that has all the waypoints you want to have, then go to prepare mission and delete that FP, but use all those tasty waypoints to bid your own FPs. This will also save added WPs if you need more than 30, so you might consider just writing down the MGRS of all the WPs you want and adding them manually in the CDU. The good news is you only have to do this once.