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How do I use laser-guided bombs?

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    How do I use laser-guided bombs?

    Hi,

    Love the A10C II, just trying to get used to the helmet cuing system but so far seems more efficient if I can remember all the TMS/DMS commands!

    I also use the unlimited ammo option so I can bomb the crap out of everything without having to go back and re-arm, however, I have noticed that once I use the initial load out with laser guided success (GBU-54/AGM-65L), the new load out from the weapons gods does not respond to the laser being fired at the target?? The weapons deploys but does not track target??

    Is this an issue/bug or am I missing a step when the new weapons appear out of thin air on my racks? Upload or something?

    I do not notice this issue with the laser guided rockets...

    #2
    i think it's a bug. if you use the laser the bomb release comes way late and you won't hit anything. i believe the jdam function works if you don't use the laser. also, some people say it works if you don't activate the laser until after the bomb has been released.

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      #3
      Hi seems to be working here, Should turn on laser about 15 sec before TTI

      add a short track replay we may see the problem


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        #4
        Hummm....

        It worked this time. Maybe it didn't work last time because I had the laser fired before I released the bomb?

        I'll keep playing with it and see...

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          #5
          In the past, many claimed that lasing too early with LGBs would cause them to miss. I never once encountered that. While I haven't confirmed it with the GBU-12 lately, I can say with certainty the GBU-54 will fly waaaay long if you lase too early.
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            #6
            Well, seems I'm getting the GBU-54s to work but still having problems homing the AGM-65L on the second load-out? Probably operator error but can't figure it out? 1st load out works fine?

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              #7
              Check laser codes match maybe.....?

              Comment


                #8
                Hello! I will try to summarize the procedure for using an LGB with the A-10C II.
                This is a much simpler procedure to perform than to illustrate!!! For this, I will limit myself to the basic steps, those necessary to get to the KABOOM!
                First, if the mission starts from the ground, it's necessary to verify that the laser code of the LGB (by default "1688") is identical to the one stored on the TGP. Generally, this alignment is by default, but if you want to set different codes, I recommend reading Chuck's wonderful guide on the A-10C (the "I", the change of codes happens the same way).
                We turn on the TPOD so it can have plenty of time to boot.
                When we are in flight (altitude at least 20,000 feet and speed at most 200 knots) and we approach the target area (which we have been careful to make a waypoint), we see the TAD screen (left) and make it SOI (coolie left long). We use DMS AFT / FWD to cycle the range and set the range to display the waypoint on the TAD. We use the HOTAS SLEW directional controls to move the TAD cursor over the waypoint, which is the target area. Let's make this point SPI (TMS FWD LONG). The wedding cake symbol appears on the TAD screen at the target waypoint and on the HUD you can see a small square with dashed lines pointing to the direction of the waypoint. Let's set the TAD range to 20. This phase is important to search for the target in the waypoint area.
                If we haven't already done so: Master Arm ON, Laser ON, TGP ON and GUN PAC ON (if we want to do some healthy BRRRRRTTT).
                On the TAD screen, as soon as we see the target waypoint appear at the top, on the right screen we select the TPOD and push the AG button. The video appears in CCD mode (default). We push the CNTL button and select LATCH ON and then RTN. With LATCH ON we make the laser modal (push the laser button to activate it and push it again to deactivate it).
                Let's make the TGP SOI (coolie right long) and start the research and tracking phase.

                Now the TAD at range 20 is useful. On the TAD the TGP sensor is represented by a small diamond. Then, using the HOTAS SLEW directional commands, I see this symbol move across the TAD. I just have to get this symbol right on the wedding cake and I'll see the target area on the TGP screen. So I start the search for the target using HOTAS SLEW, china hat fwd short (cycle FOV), DMS FWD / AFT (zoom in / out).
                To locate the target, it may be useful to cycle through the various video modes: Boat Switch FWD (FLIR BHOT), Boat Switch AFT (FLIR WHOT), Boat Switch Center (CCD).
                When I find the target, I have to track it. With the TGP sensor on target, I push TMS FWD SHORT and cycle between Target Area (AT) for fixed targets and Point Target (PT) for targets that can move. We assume that the target is a tank, so it must be tracked with PT (on the TPOD a small square appears on the tank and follows it).
                Now let's go to the screen on the left and select DSMS. Among the various stations, there will be some with LGB. We assume there are 2 GBU-12s, one at station 4 and one at station 8. Push the corresponding buttons on the sides of the left MFD to select stations 4 and 8 (the station symbols on the DSMS turn green). I omit to illustrate all the features of the weapon profiles (this post would become an encyclopedia). With the MASTER MODE CONTROL button, I cycle the various release modes and select CCRP. At the center of the HUD appears "CCRP" and its symbology: the double circle (CCRP PIPPER) and the two lines. One line (the one starting from the top of the CCRP PIPPER) is the Projected Bomb Release Line (PBRL), the other perpendicular to the designated target is the Azimuth Steering Line (ASL).
                At this point the situation is as follows: left screen DSMS, right screen TGP rendered SOI with the target tracked PT. Now it’s FUNDAMENTAL to make the TGP as SPI, that is TMS FWD LONG!!! The SPI is indicated on the HUD at the bottom left and "TGP" should appear.
                You fly level and maneuver the jet to align the PBRL with the ASL. At about 6-8 seconds from the release time (you see this release countdown on the center left of the HUD, near the "L" which indicates laser activation), a small circle (with the same countdown in the middle) is visible and he falls from top to bottom along the ASL. As soon as you see this small circle fall, press and hold the release button until the bomb automatically detaches (release can be verified by viewing the DSMS screen). In the central part to the extreme left of the HUD, next to the "L", you see the impact countdown. At a time between 20 and 15 seconds from impact, you must activate the laser (push the NWS button). The "L" on the HUD flashes and after 15-20 seconds ... KABOOM!!!
                IMPORTANT: after impact, turn off the laser immediately (push NWS again) otherwise the sensor will burn and goodbye.
                With the TPOD aimed at the target area, other targets (other tanks) can be searched. It will no longer be necessary to make the TGP as an SPI (it remains that way), just trace (as a PT) the next targets, drop the bombs (until the selected stations have bombs), activate the laser until impact and remember to deactivate it.
                I wish many KABOOMs to everyone.

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                  #9
                  It's almost certainly that you had the laser on before you launched. There is a bug where if you drop a 54 with the laser on, the bomb will just fly way past your target. If you laze 15 second or so before impact (I turn it on as it passes through 20 seconds), it seems to hit no problem.

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                    #10
                    Indeed, I had some problems with the GBU-54 being used as an LGB. It happens to me that the first release is inevitably lost, even if the laser is activated in a time between 20 and 15 seconds from impact. However, the releases following the first work perfectly. Very strange. However, I prefer to use the GBU-12 which is very reliable.

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                      #11
                      I've done some practice missions with the GBU-54. Indeed, it is essential to activate the laser about 15 seconds after impact. If you do that, the bomb works perfectly as an LGB.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Deezle View Post
                        In the past, many claimed that lasing too early with LGBs would cause them to miss. I never once encountered that. While I haven't confirmed it with the GBU-12 lately, I can say with certainty the GBU-54 will fly waaaay long if you lase too early.
                        GBU-12 is with "bang-bang" correction and guidance is pure lead, meaning that the bomb guidance unit performs control surfaces full deflections to get the bomb pointing directly at the laser spot.

                        The "bang-bang" is that the control surface turns first to full deflection toward the laser spot, until bomb is pointed over the laser spot, then the surfaces are turned fully back to to get the bomb point directly at the laser spot and the bomb follows a "snake pattern" until it is so well going toward the laser dot that it only performs very short period full control adjustments.

                        In the GBU-54 there is no such thing as the control surfaces has linear adjustment capability so the bomb unit can make just proper amount of deflection to turn bomb in optimal amount toward the target point and then keep surfaces steady there.

                        The another problem is that the aircraft firing computer calculates the CCIP/AUTO release points based the bomb kinematic trajectory, not by the laser guidance trajectory.
                        This is so that even if there wouldn't be laser spot, the bomb would be falling like a unguided bomb on the target.

                        If you will use laser too soon, the bomb seeker will find the laser spot early and it will immediately start turning bomb downward, away from the kinematic trajectory that would still be more horizontal.
                        This way the bomb flight path and all the kinematic energy is cut short as the guidance unit tries to point GBU-12 directly on the target.

                        The GBU-12 can't either fly, it doesn't have control surfaces enough to make it glide bomb or anything like that. It is just enough to get that 250 kg turn on direction and it holds bomb so it points at it.

                        Now as the bomb is falling short from the start, it is all the time pointing toward target, it starts simply to fall sideways down on the earth short from the target. It literally does everything it can to keep bomb nose pointing at the target while it is falling toward ground and it is suppose to drop very short from the target.

                        That is why you should only use the laser designator only in the final seconds, when the bomb has completed it horizontal fall trajectory and it is already nose down toward the target, and then start laser so the bomb would find it and it is only keep the bomb nose on target while all kinematic force is pushing it down on target itself.

                        So designating target too soon means that the bomb simple guidance method will fight against the bomb drop trajectory by trying to point bomb too soon on the target.

                        This is as well why the GBU-12 can't be guided properly on the high wind scenarios nor at moving target.

                        And why GBU-54 was developed so the bomb can ignore all false information by knowing where it is, using GPS and where target area is, and using this information to calculate the proper trajectory there, and then if there is a laser spot, seek for it by tracking its position and movement and if it is moving (a moving target) then calculate the required lead on it by using GPS and laser seeker angle rate information. Why laser too soon shouldn't matter at all the GBU-54 performance as the bomb knows where it is, where the target is and how to get there, and if the laser spot is detected but it is giving wrong information compared to GPS, then it should be ignored.

                        The GBU-54 gets the "smart" in it, making it "smart weapon", while GBU-12 is stupid bomb with a stupid simple guidance unit.
                        Last edited 10-17-2020, 05:58 PM.
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                          #13
                          Originally posted by kmw072671 View Post
                          Well, seems I'm getting the GBU-54s to work but still having problems homing the AGM-65L on the second load-out? Probably operator error but can't figure it out? 1st load out works fine?
                          You'll notice that after you release the first loadout..the second loadout's laser code is set to 1111 instead of the default 1688.

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                            #14
                            Excellent explanation Fri13! Thank you. Now I understand why it is correct for the GBU-54 to turn on the laser in the last 15 seconds before impact.

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