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    Targets Difficult to See

    When flying the A-10C I often use the 'Easy-East Georgia-Spring' instant action mission for refresher training, so I know this mission reasonably well.

    I have noticed when flying the A-10C II I can hardly see the two supply trucks until I'm practically on top of them, they appear to be a lighter grey and merge into the ground background, same for the Patrol (second target in mission). If I switch back to using the original A-10C the trucks are a lot more visible - very strange.
    GAJ52

    Intel i7-7700K @ 4.60GHz | 32 GB Ram | Win 10 Pro 64 | GTX 1080i 11.00MB | Saitek X52 Pro

    #2
    Zoom.
    Buzz

    Comment


      #3
      Hi

      Seeing ground targets is difficult in real life, have a read of this book, gives some good insights.

      In DCS its about practice, I am sure you will get used to it.

      thanks


      Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status

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        #4
        I think the question was why there is a difference in the visibility of targets like trucks depending on the A-10c model you fly the mission with. Is that an intended change included with (and limited to) the A-10c II upgrade for realism?

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          #5
          Originally posted by Hive View Post
          I think the question was why there is a difference in the visibility of targets like trucks depending on the A-10c model you fly the mission with. Is that an intended change included with (and limited to) the A-10c II upgrade for realism?
          Thank you Hive for pointing that out, that was my question.

          Why is there a difference between the two A-10C variants in visibility, is this a modification to make the A-10C II more realistic ?

          BuzzU - I use zoom
          GAJ52

          Intel i7-7700K @ 4.60GHz | 32 GB Ram | Win 10 Pro 64 | GTX 1080i 11.00MB | Saitek X52 Pro

          Comment


            #6
            Ok, I wasn't sure you used it. I agree it seems harder to see the targets with the new Hog. I don't usually use zoom to keep it real but even with zoom it's still hard to see what i'm shooting. I tend to fly in way closer than I want to because I don't see anything to shoot at unless I do.
            Buzz

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              #7
              Not seeing any difference in spotting between versions, and there is no code regarding this that would make it different.


              Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status

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                #8
                It's a DCS limitation that has existed for years and years. Aircraft and vehicles are nearly invisible until you're on top of them. They tried these 'sprites' a few years back and they were terrible, so we went back to square one.
                P-51D | Fw 190D-9 | Bf 109K-4 | Spitfire Mk IX | P-47D | WW2 assets pack | F-86 | Mig-15 | Mig-21 | Mirage 2000C | A-10C II | F-5E | F-16 | F/A-18 | Ka-50 | Combined Arms | FC3 | Nevada | Normandy | Straight of Hormuz | Syria

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                  #9
                  I've had this problem until I started flying VR. Even on a blurry Oculus CV1, trucks are quite visible in either A-10 version. I sometimes use VR zoom to overcome the resolution limitation, but that's mostly to identify (is it a truck or a doghouse? ), not locate. On a screen, the problem is that objects are much smaller than they would appear IRL. This means they're simply not visible when they should be.

                  Spotting ground targets from the air is hard, even in VR, but a screen makes it even harder.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Zoom and Zoom ?? this was done by a real Pilot ???

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by GAJ52 View Post
                      Thank you Hive for pointing that out, that was my question.

                      Why is there a difference between the two A-10C variants in visibility, is this a modification to make the A-10C II more realistic ?

                      BuzzU - I use zoom
                      Do you have comparison screenshots?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by GAJ52 View Post
                        Thank you Hive for pointing that out, that was my question.

                        Why is there a difference between the two A-10C variants in visibility, is this a modification to make the A-10C II more realistic ?

                        BuzzU - I use zoom

                        Well, it is difficult indeed to see stuff sometimes. However, in this special case, the reason for the difference you are seeing is simple: time of day.


                        As it seems, the time of day of this particular mission was changed when it was edited for the A-10C II. The original mission runs in the afternoon, the A-10C II mission runs in early morning. This is why the lighting looks very different, and this is most likely the reason for your target visibility difference.


                        Cheers,
                        Fin

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Finlayson View Post
                          Well, it is difficult indeed to see stuff sometimes. However, in this special case, the reason for the difference you are seeing is simple: time of day.


                          As it seems, the time of day of this particular mission was changed when it was edited for the A-10C II. The original mission runs in the afternoon, the A-10C II mission runs in early morning. This is why the lighting looks very different, and this is most likely the reason for your target visibility difference.


                          Cheers,
                          Fin
                          I agree! I found this out by approaching the target at different angles. The sun and other conditions are a factor.
                          DO it or Don't, but don't cry about it. Real men don't cry!

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                            #14
                            At noon there are practically no tall shadows which makes everything bland and hard to see. When you have shadows, it's much easier to recognize stuff in the ground.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by LaRata View Post
                              Zoom and Zoom ?? this was done by a real Pilot ???
                              Binoculars, yes....
                              Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra, i7-9700k (4.9ghz all cores), NH-D15 cooler, 64 GB CL-14 3200mhz RAM, GTX1080SC, Soundblaster Z, Yamaha 5.1 A/V Receiver, 2x 512GB Samsung NVMe, 1x 1TB Samsung NVMe, WD 2TB HDD, Win 10 Pro, TM Warthog, Virpil WarBRD, MFG Crosswinds, 43" Samsung 4K TV, 21.5 Acer VT touchscreen, TrackIR, JetSeat KW-908, Rift "S", Wheel Stand Pro Super Warthog, Phanteks Enthoo Pro Full Tower Case, Seasonic Prime 750W Titanium PW Supply, PointCTRL, Buttkicker 2

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                                #16
                                Originally posted by javelina1 View Post
                                Binoculars, yes....
                                Plus, young 20/20 eyesight.
                                Buzz

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Finlayson View Post
                                  Well, it is difficult indeed to see stuff sometimes. However, in this special case, the reason for the difference you are seeing is simple: time of day.


                                  As it seems, the time of day of this particular mission was changed when it was edited for the A-10C II. The original mission runs in the afternoon, the A-10C II mission runs in early morning. This is why the lighting looks very different, and this is most likely the reason for your target visibility difference
                                  Thanks I didn't realise they changed the mission for the A-10C II, changing the time of day makes sense why the lighting is different
                                  GAJ52

                                  Intel i7-7700K @ 4.60GHz | 32 GB Ram | Win 10 Pro 64 | GTX 1080i 11.00MB | Saitek X52 Pro

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    The gaming universe goes circles on this forever. It's not "zoom", it's adjusting your field of view. You're taking 60-110 degrees of view and putting on a monitor that's about a 20 degree cone in front of your face. So everything on your 2D flatscreen is about 1/4th scale of what it would be IRL. Full "zoom" in DCS is what? 20 fov or something, which is actually what a pilot would see, but then you lose peripheral vision.

                                    [6] = {--LWin + Num5 : Snap View 5
                                    viewAngle = 60.000000,--FOV
                                    hAngle = 0.000000,
                                    vAngle = 0.000000,
                                    x_trans = 0.000000,
                                    y_trans = 0.000000,
                                    z_trans = 0.000000,
                                    rollAngle = 0.000000,
                                    cockpit_version = 0,
                                    },

                                    Default is 60. I assume you unless you're sitting reaaaaaly close more monitor is not presenting a 60 arc in front of your face...

                                    In DCS:
                                    CameraViewAngleLimits = {20.000000,140.000000},

                                    From good old wikipedia: The visual field of the human eye spans approximately 120 degrees of arc.[1] However, most of that arc is peripheral vision. The human eye has much greater resolution in the macula, where there is a higher density of cone cells. The field of view that is observed with sufficient resolution to read text typically spans about 6 degrees of arc.

                                    Anyway, let's not use this thread to debate the numbers, countless threads already exist for that, only point I'm making here is, you're taking 60-110 degrees FoV in DCS and shrinking it to fit on your monitor. "Zooming" in DCS lowers the FoV to 20 which we be about what your monitor is in front of you and would depict what it should look like size wise.

                                    Case in point, the HUD in a real A-10 is about 2/3 the size of my real monitor, so, that's actually how big it should be at scale... Zooming so that the hud is 2/3rds my monitor is anything but cheating, it's how it should look. It's just unplayable for a video game as you get no peripheral vision at that point.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      This is why VR is the future. You get 1-to-1 head movement, the better headsets have around 110 degree FOV, and even the ones that don't clip the FOV, rather than compress the view. You get pretty much the same view a pilot would have IRL, if your headset is up to task.

                                      I still use zoom, but only because I have a crappy Oculus CV1 headset, which gives me a visual acuity I'd never be cleared for flying with IRL. Sometimes I need that for identification (and reading small text ). I expect not to need that once I switch to Reverb G2.

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