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    TGP to STEER

    TGP to STEER function (china hat aft long)
    seems to have been replaced with TGP to SPI.


    This breaks the previous markpoint workflow where one could explore and fire weapons with the TGP as SOI and go back to the current markpoint with a single hotas button.
    Also it is redundant, as china hat fwd long slews all sensors, including the TGP, to the SPI.


    Is this change correct? Does the real jet not have TGP to STEER?
    Last edited by Oznerol256; 10-04-2020, 05:26 PM.
    sigpic

    #2
    If HUD is SOI and you’re in STPT then TGP will slave to STPT.
    sigpic
    http://www.476vfightergroup.com/content.php
    High Quality Aviation Photography For Personal Enjoyment And Editorial Use.
    www.crosswindimages.com

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      #3
      Yeah so from TGP as SOI i have to:
      TMS aft long
      China hat fwd long or aft long
      Coolie left long (if left mfcd)

      As opposed to the old:
      China hat aft long
      sigpic

      Comment


        #4
        He's right. If you have a SPI that isn't steerpoint and CHA-long you'll get TGP to SPI and not to STPT.

        The manual backs this up, page 94, CHA-long "Slave TGP to SPI".

        Comment


          #5
          It is a little awkward, but if the real HOTAS works this way, I'm fine with this change. But can somebody explain why it would be this way? I used to slew my sensors all the time between STRP and SPI with China Hat Aft/Forward long which was very useful.
          Now you have the option to slew all sensors or only TGP to SPI, but not STRP - at least not in a direct manner. Seems much less useful to me and a little redundant, too like Oznerol256 mentioned.
          Last edited by Hive; 10-05-2020, 03:51 AM.

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            #6
            Originally posted by Hive View Post
            It is a little awkward, but if the real HOTAS works this way, I'm fine with this change. But can somebody explain why it would be this way? I used to slew my sensors all the time between STRP and SPI with China Hat Aft/Forward long which seemed very useful.
            Now you have the option to slew all sensors or only TGP to SPI, but not STRP - at least not in a direct manner. Seems much less useful to me and a little redundant.
            Well, one instance would be CAS where you really only have two steerpoints:
            1) Home Base
            2) Your CP or Check In Point

            Neither of which really require anything more than your NAV system and certainly don’t need to be scrutinized like a target.

            Everything else is going to be fed to you in your AO by a JTAC or FAC(A) and if your TGP just floats in space between attack runs until you need to bring everything to bear, that’s really no big deal.

            Another might be Armed Recon where you’re only given a rough idea where to look so you’re going to be pretty much anchored and orbiting in one place and be heavy on TGP work scanning for bad guys.

            IF you’re given a target that’s co-located with a steerpoint, then all bets are off and you can slave everything to that point at will.

            Point is, it’s rare where you need to have every sensor slaved to one spot at all times so if one or two are “dangling” it’s really not a big deal.

            At least that’s how I see it.
            sigpic
            http://www.476vfightergroup.com/content.php
            High Quality Aviation Photography For Personal Enjoyment And Editorial Use.
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            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Emmy View Post
              Well, one instance would be CAS where you really only have two steerpoints:
              1) Home Base
              2) Your CP or Check In Point

              Neither of which really require anything more than your NAV system and certainly don’t need to be scrutinized like a target.

              Everything else is going to be fed to you in your AO by a JTAC or FAC(A) and if your TGP just floats in space between attack runs until you need to bring everything to bear, that’s really no big deal.

              Another might be Armed Recon where you’re only given a rough idea where to look so you’re going to be pretty much anchored and orbiting in one place and be heavy on TGP work scanning for bad guys.

              IF you’re given a target that’s co-located with a steerpoint, then all bets are off and you can slave everything to that point at will.

              Point is, it’s rare where you need to have every sensor slaved to one spot at all times so if one or two are “dangling” it’s really not a big deal.

              At least that’s how I see it.

              I think you are forgetting markpoints. They are specifically there to be able to memorize target locations and the only way to slave to them is to make them a steerpoint first.
              sigpic

              Comment


                #8
                You should be able to make a mark SPI without making it the current steerpoint if you hook it with TAD or helmet and make that sensor the SPI generator.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Oznerol256 View Post
                  I think you are forgetting markpoints. They are specifically there to be able to memorize target locations and the only way to slave to them is to make them a steerpoint first.
                  TMS Right Long.
                  Last edited by Yurgon; 10-11-2020, 10:20 PM. Reason: Quoted the wrong post

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                    #10
                    It's too bad they messed up some useful controls and made things more cumbersome. All could be fixed if they just allowed us to assign functions as we need to. That way those who want the controls to be exactly as they are IRL could have them, and those who are ok with some compromises which make the sim more workable could have theirs.

                    Even though they removed the simple method to select TGP to Steerpoint, I noticed that you can China Hat Aft Short (LSS Toggle) then China Hat Aft Long to get TGP to Steerpoint in addition to the other methods mentioned.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by dporter22 View Post
                      It's too bad they messed up some useful controls and made things more cumbersome.

                      Even though they removed the simple method to select TGP to Steerpoint, I noticed that you can China Hat Aft Short (LSS Toggle) then China Hat Aft Long to get TGP to Steerpoint in addition to the other methods mentioned.
                      Slave TGP to STPT is still CHAL (china hat aft long), just like it's always been.....

                      There is no need to CHAS (china hat aft short) to enter LSS mode, unless you are actually searching for a buddy lase.


                      Cheers,

                      Ziptie
                      i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x400 gig SSD drives (one soley for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS

                      Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, FC3, Combined Arms. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Ziptie View Post
                        Slave TGP to STPT is still CHAL (china hat aft long), just like it's always been.....
                        Nope, it slaves TGP to SPI and CHFL slaves all to SPI, per my experience and per the manual.



                        For example if you're generating the SPI with your TGP and wish to slave it to a steerpoint, you must TMS aft long to set the steerpoint as SPI before the TGP will slave to it. This is an unfortunate change that's going to take a while to get used to.
                        Last edited by Deezle; 10-17-2020, 09:21 PM.
                        Intel 9600K@4.9GHz, Asus Z390, 32GB DDR4 2400MHz, EVGA GTX 1070, Custom Water Cooling, 970 EVO 500GB NVMe, 2TB of Mechanical Storage

                        34" UltraWide 3440x1440 Curved Monitor, 21" MFD monitor, TIR5

                        My Pit Build, VKB Gunfighter Pro w/WH Grip, TMWH Throttle, MFG Crosswinds W/Combat Pedals, Cougar MFDs, Custom A-10C panels, Custom Helo Collective, SimShaker with Transducer

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Deezle View Post
                          Nope, it slaves TGP to SPI and CHFL slaves all to SPI, per my experience and per the manual.



                          For example if you're generating the SPI with your TGP and wish to slave it to a steerpoint, you must TMS aft long to set the steerpoint as SPI before the TGP will slave to it. This is an fortunate change that's going to take a while to get used to.
                          Ah, that is my mistake - but fortunately the method you describe the the second part of your post is how I did it in the original A10C - so I was doing it incorrect originally but now don’t have to adapt my muscle memory. A win for me? Debatable..


                          Cheers,

                          Ziptie
                          i7 6700 @4ghz, 32GB HyperX Fury ddr4-2133 ram, GTX980, Oculus Rift CV1, 2x400 gig SSD drives (one soley for DCS OpenBeta standalone) Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS

                          Airframes: A10C, A10CII, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-16C, FC3, Combined Arms. Terrains: Persian Gulf, Nevada NTTR, Syria

                          Comment


                            #14
                            As I mentioned, with TGP as SOI I can CHAS followed by CHAL to get TGP to Steerpoint without changing the SPI to the steerpoint. Anyone else?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by dporter22 View Post
                              As I mentioned, with TGP as SOI I can CHAS followed by CHAL to get TGP to Steerpoint without changing the SPI to the steerpoint. Anyone else?
                              That's a good find, it appears in addition to setting the TGP into laser search mode, CHAS also resets the SPI to the steerpoint. This method is faster and more fluid that using TMS aft long to reset the SPI to steerpoint first if you were used to always using CHAL to slave to steerpoint.
                              Intel 9600K@4.9GHz, Asus Z390, 32GB DDR4 2400MHz, EVGA GTX 1070, Custom Water Cooling, 970 EVO 500GB NVMe, 2TB of Mechanical Storage

                              34" UltraWide 3440x1440 Curved Monitor, 21" MFD monitor, TIR5

                              My Pit Build, VKB Gunfighter Pro w/WH Grip, TMWH Throttle, MFG Crosswinds W/Combat Pedals, Cougar MFDs, Custom A-10C panels, Custom Helo Collective, SimShaker with Transducer

                              Comment


                                #16
                                But if you set STPT on the HUD then you can Slave All to any of four distinct things...

                                It can be a Waypoint
                                It can be a Markpoint
                                It can be a Mission Point
                                It can be something Hooked on your TAD

                                I’ve developed two reflexive things with this new HOTAS arrangement:
                                - Put the TGP in INR after each attack so it stays in the general area I’m working
                                - Put the HUD back to STPT so that it’s always referencing my chosen STPT Generator.

                                Having the ability to easily change from Waypoint to Markpoint to Mission Point is invaluable.
                                I have it bound to Coolie Hat Left / Forward / Right respectively with the Paddle Switch as a modifier.
                                sigpic
                                http://www.476vfightergroup.com/content.php
                                High Quality Aviation Photography For Personal Enjoyment And Editorial Use.
                                www.crosswindimages.com

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by dporter22 View Post
                                  As I mentioned, with TGP as SOI I can CHAS followed by CHAL to get TGP to Steerpoint without changing the SPI to the steerpoint. Anyone else?
                                  This doesn't work or it only works because if TGP is SPI and you engage LSS the SPI becomes STPT. It's still slaving TGP to SPI, you've just found a different way to make STPT SPI before doing so.

                                  If you have a different SPI that LSS doesn't interrupt, like TDC then during LSS the SPI remains TDC and CHAL still slaves TGP to SPI.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by Emmy View Post
                                    Having the ability to easily change from Waypoint to Markpoint to Mission Point is invaluable.
                                    I have it bound to Coolie Hat Left / Forward / Right respectively with the Paddle Switch as a modifier.
                                    Dude I can highly recommend getting a Buddyfox UFC. That thing is useful as **** (who would have known?!)

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by EasyEB View Post
                                      Dude I can highly recommend getting a Buddyfox UFC. That thing is useful as **** (who would have known?!)
                                      Dude, I have one...

                                      But the HOTAS bindings are faster and I can switch modes without looking.
                                      sigpic
                                      http://www.476vfightergroup.com/content.php
                                      High Quality Aviation Photography For Personal Enjoyment And Editorial Use.
                                      www.crosswindimages.com

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