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Why don't our warbirds cough and struggle on startup?

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    #21
    Originally posted by Magic Zach View Post
    The revised 1954 (AN-01-60JE-1 to a different T.O. 1F-51D-1)and 1957 (T.O. 1F-51D-1) flight manuals. It is performed this way in A2A's P51 familiarization video.
    It is also said so in ED's own manual on pg. 127
    Iirc this is a small way of prolonging the engine's life, by letting the engine rotate a few times and get oil around. Particularly when ground crew isn't available to rotate the prop by hand, like in our case.

    Sent from my SM-A715F using Tapatalk
    Like i said, second world war time p-51 had no option for that.
    While starting engine, it has too low rpm to get proper pressure in oil system. Sometimes it takes couple of seconds to get oil pressure after engine start up when rpm are much higher. This counting blades is more like safety against hydro lock. 1.5 crank revolution supposed to deliver oil to engine before start ?? I some how don't believe in this.
    What you need to extend engine life time is electric oil pump.
    A2A recreated modern p-51 which are flying now, not 1945 war time warbirds.
    I will agree with other things , like throttle response when engine is cold, what to good imho.
    Other thing which i don't like about p-51 start up that you have to do everything in order if not engine wont start.
    For example, when you forget to prime engine, priming while cranking engine is not working, but in RL you for sure can do something like that.
    Last edited 10-17-2020, 07:16 PM.
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      #22
      Originally posted by grafspee View Post
      Like i said, second world war time p-51 had no option for that.
      Why not

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        #23
        Originally posted by Magic Zach View Post
        Why not

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        Because starter button is hot wired with booster coil, unless you dont prime engine you will fire it up once you hit starter button. Looks like in modern p-51 magneto switch is cutting off booster coil as well.
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          #24
          Originally posted by SmirkingGerbil View Post
          Awhile back, Nineline poked fun at me (taken in stride) as I tongue in cheek requested that the new X-Ray damage model be applied to buildings and trees!!! He sent me a GIF of a PC catching on fire, which is accurate.
          I remember that post, but that is then limitation in DCS engine instead limitation in physics modeling.

          It would not need be perfect, just a simulation. You add each tree a few break points depending their size. Like flying an aluminium made WW2 plane on 600 year old oak and the plane squeezes as a tin can under foot. Make it a F-14 kind and it will cut few trees by it mass, especially from upper proportion.

          Having example 3-5 cut lines on tree and make the upper part of trunk to fall on direction of impact force and you have wanted effect.
          It doesn't need to be dynamic or similar manner full physics calculations but just neatly animated cut and fall.

          And it needs to be done only for trees that are near aircraft and on the way of flight path to be activated, otherwise just for weapons as bombs that put few trees fall away from explosion point.

          Engines, especially WWII engines, modeled to take into account ambient temperature, humidity, ambient temps of engine fluids and fuels, to do things like condensation of fuel in manifold intake runners, varying venturi performance based on temps, fuel density etc. Leaky piston rings, varying cylinder compression based on wear and tear. Cold crank reaction based on cold oil, and weak batteries etc. would pretty much cause the same thing . . . your PC to catch on fire.
          Again not required. We are talking about just a random effect now and then. Just add some sound effects, some smoke effects and propeller start-up problem effects.
          then just randomly add them to happen.

          It is after all just now and then when player needs to start engine second or third time.

          There is no requirement to model and emulate engine in atomic level for that. That is just unrealistic expectations already that what DCS does now at level it does it.

          When it is random, you can take just some common causing factors to increase it's likelihood. Like if you have too high mixture it happens very likely. Or if you have cold engine (first start) or if you have couple other variants then it has higher change to happen once or twice.

          It is nothing more than a effect that is ran. Just like now with jets that you can have a turbine stall and need to do an air start. Need to have that proper RPM and proper throttle position and off you go....

          It just adds the feeling that engine has that starting problem here and then and everything is not so perfect.

          Like we do not need to have bugs modeled to have dirty windshields, or model FOD by modeling small rocks or something....
          After all it is about simulation, not about emulation. So you can just add the random effects without emulating why such effect happens.

          To simulate things, one doesn't need to know what happens inside a black box when it is known something else can happen.

          Just a Random Number Generator is performed, known as "roll a dice" that did an engine just have a one or two problematic start-ups. What does it cost? Couple repress a button to start engine?
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            #25
            Originally posted by Fri13 View Post

            I remember that post, but that is then limitation in DCS engine instead limitation in physics modeling.

            It would not need be perfect, just a simulation. You add each tree a few break points depending their size. Like flying an aluminium made WW2 plane on 600 year old oak and the plane squeezes as a tin can under foot. Make it a F-14 kind and it will cut few trees by it mass, especially from upper proportion.

            Having example 3-5 cut lines on tree and make the upper part of trunk to fall on direction of impact force and you have wanted effect.
            It doesn't need to be dynamic or similar manner full physics calculations but just neatly animated cut and fall.

            And it needs to be done only for trees that are near aircraft and on the way of flight path to be activated, otherwise just for weapons as bombs that put few trees fall away from explosion point.


            Again not required. We are talking about just a random effect now and then. Just add some sound effects, some smoke effects and propeller start-up problem effects.
            then just randomly add them to happen.

            . . .

            Just a Random Number Generator is performed, known as "roll a dice" that did an engine just have a one or two problematic start-ups. What does it cost? Couple repress a button to start engine?
            Appreciate your insight and responses . . . but I am just a layman, so I will leave this to the experts. I am not the one that can weigh in on applicability, or feasibility.

            If these things are possible, wonderful! After all, I still get a smile when I strap on an airplane, and see the needles swing in response to my actions, a very happy consumer here.
            Pointy end hurt! Fire burn!!

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              #26
              I always just assumed I had a good crew chief that had already pre-flighted my plane and warmed the engine up for me.

              Also, in WWII, wasn’t the average lifespan of an aircraft something like 15-20 missions until it was lost? I can’t remember the number but it was surprisingly low. So most airplanes were fairly new!

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