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    Landing P-47 and other warbirds

    I have no problems landing Jets but landing a warbird is always an adventure.

    P-47 will always bounce no matter what I do...

    In the end I do land, but there is like 30% that I will die or crash land.

    Am I doing something wrong?

    How to achieve perfect landing.. any tutorial videos ?
    sigpic

    #2
    Quote from Wikipedia
    At least 10% of all Bf 109s were lost in takeoff and landing accidents. 1,500 of which occurred between 1939 and 1941. The installation of a fixed "tall" tailwheel on some of the late G-10s and −14s and the K-series helped alleviate the problem to a large extent.
    I have no idea what the rate was for P-47s but I guess it's similar. When I'm landing the Bf-109 it's a 50/50 chance of either landing successfully with a little bit of drifting or catching my nose and going up in flames.

    This tutorial is for the BF109F4 in IL2 but I think the procedure should be the same in general
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wcu8R_t0tM



    Edit: Just realized that you're the dude who's looking for a Bf-109 squadron. Hmu on discord (Don Calzone#4100) or via pm
    Last edited 06-20-2020, 08:25 PM.

    Comment


      #3
      The thunderbolt should certainly not have anywhere near the same accident rate on landings as the 109 (which is a separate and complicated story in and of itself as to why the accident rate was the way it was).

      Bouncing usually means you touched down with too much excess airspeed, and when entering 3 point position the aircraft still generates too much lift, or you hit the ground too hard on touchdown. Mostly its practice but sometimes its helpful in the last moments before touchdown to stare at point on the horizon instead of somewhere closer, it can help with judging sinkrate during flare/touchdown. Also the Mustang at least is much more prone to bouncing in 2 point landings with higher fuel loads compared to almost empty.
      9./JG27

      "If you can't hit anything, it's because you suck. If you get shot down, it's because you suck. You and me, we know we suck, and that makes it ok." - Worst person in all of DCS

      "In the end, which will never come, we will all be satisifed... we must fight them on forum, we will fight them on reddit..." - Dunravin

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by wizav View Post
        I have no problems landing Jets but landing a warbird is always an adventure.

        P-47 will always bounce no matter what I do...

        In the end I do land, but there is like 30% that I will die or crash land.

        Am I doing something wrong?

        How to achieve perfect landing.. any tutorial videos ?
        P-47 is one of the easiest plane to land. But landing a taildragger you need to get it in three-point attitude with the wheels in 20-40 cm over the surface. After that the plane will seat itself, and all you need to do is to keep it straight using rudder and then - differential braking.

        If the plane touches the ground not in three-point attitude and with vertical speed it will bounce because of increased AoA.

        But if the bouncing is not violent, i.e. speed is not high it is not very harmful.

        https://youtu.be/ttfcnfLPc1U
        Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів
        There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.
        Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by DefaultFace View Post
          The thunderbolt should certainly not have anywhere near the same accident rate on landings as the 109 (which is a separate and complicated story in and of itself as to why the accident rate was the way it was).
          probably the reason why I didn't find any numbers so makes sense

          Comment


            #6
            https://youtu.be/YVIk4VQ6hgM This always makes me feel better lol
            Intel 8700k @5ghz, 32gb ram, 1080ti, Rift S

            Comment


              #7
              P47 is a breeze, only thing to mention that being heavy she holds on to alot of speed when coming in hot so I usually find myself having to pay more attention to bleeding off any excess speed before the landing approach. I ran out of fuel and had to deadstick a landing the other day, that worked well for slowing down, best one yet.

              Comment


                #8
                Not any secret,just practice.Before take off,Check your position when on the ground by looking left and right sides.Check the nose position above horizon.At the next landing just put the plane in the same position when near the ground and wait for the stall.
                To know what speed is for stall,fly at low speed until plane stall and check anemometer speed.
                Once at landing sequence place your plane near the ground with the speed registered,and wait.Of course better will be the way if you begin over the treshold.
                Video is not a tutorial but take a look at parameters,maybe it could be usefull?

                If this one is not good enough i could make it one other
                Last edited 06-21-2020, 05:42 PM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by wizav View Post
                  I have no problems landing Jets but landing a warbird is always an adventure.

                  P-47 will always bounce no matter what I do...

                  In the end I do land, but there is like 30% that I will die or crash land.

                  Am I doing something wrong?

                  How to achieve perfect landing.. any tutorial videos ?

                  Learn what a "Military overhead break" landing pattern is if you don't already, just to set yourself up properly.


                  As for the bounce, you only bounce if you have too high a sink rate or you're flying it into the runway.
                  To fix that simply spend some time practicing flying about a foot or two above the runway at slow-ish speed, but not trying to land.

                  Once you get the hang of that, just fly into that position and then cut the throttle, and let the plane land itself.
                  You won't bounce then.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Try to not land.
                    After you flare, try to fly as low and slow as possible just inches above the runway.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Yo-Yo View Post
                      P-47 is one of the easiest plane to land. But landing a taildragger you need to get it in three-point attitude with the wheels in 20-40 cm over the surface. After that the plane will seat itself, and all you need to do is to keep it straight using rudder and then - differential braking.

                      If the plane touches the ground not in three-point attitude and with vertical speed it will bounce because of increased AoA.

                      But if the bouncing is not violent, i.e. speed is not high it is not very harmful.

                      https://youtu.be/ttfcnfLPc1U
                      Originally posted by Dino Might View Post
                      Try to not land.
                      After you flare, try to fly as low and slow as possible just inches above the runway.
                      Originally posted by Enduro14 View Post
                      https://youtu.be/YVIk4VQ6hgM This always makes me feel better lol
                      Thank you guys I figured it out.

                      Previously I wasn't relying on tailwheel AT ALL which made my landings terribly dangerous and unstable. Now I basically land almost on all 3 wheels with a bit nose up.

                      Well I learned something about taildraggers

                      Now it's fun to fly when I know I won't crash land.
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                        #12
                        If you do a approach circuit to lose speed and altitude, you will able to a safe landings ever.... with or without combat damage.
                        But for first sucess landing you need to know what the indicate speed for your aircraft ( read the manual) ...After some time you will feel it and will able to manage to do safely in bad conditions, with heavy loads and short landings.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by wizav View Post
                          I have no problems landing Jets but landing a warbird is always an adventure.

                          P-47 will always bounce no matter what I do...
                          Everybody loves offering their opinion so here's mine ...

                          Tricycle planes are forgiving with landing speed vertical and forward. Taildraggers are not.

                          If after landing with higher than stall speed the tail goes down for any reason, the AoA goes up and it will take off again.

                          Tail can go down because of stick movement or it can go down because of the momentum associated with excess vertical speed.

                          As other said... fly as low and slow as possible until 3 point touchdown. Also, do not have any side-slip, have ball centered, or it will swing.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Based on a Standard Recovery Circuit. See P47 D Flight Manual diagram showing Key heights and speeds.
                            Get trim correct and constantly correct it. Set RPM at 2550 RPM and do not touch it again.
                            Keep speed at 150/160 MPH, don't initiate a turn at less than 130 MPH a stall is highly predicted outcome.
                            Turn Finals 800/1000ft Full flaps, establish descent speed 115/120, IAS, Keep beginning of the threshold aligned with Gunsite glass lower edge.
                            Throttle to about 12/13 indicated.
                            Fly the A/C down to 200ft and level out smoothly. pull up to correct attitude and let it fly on.
                            Do not cut all power as that will encourage bouncing.

                            Watch the video by The Warsimmer Landing the P51D Mustang. (https://youtu.be/n9AsrLhgOek) The only difference is really what Throttle you set at each stage of the evolution.

                            Good Luck

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I find that she requires a lot higher nose attitude round base and final and more power during these phases than feels intuitive coming from the -51 or Spitfire. I fly a curving Spitfire style combined base and final to keep the runway in sight and always aim for a tail low if not full 3-point landing and thus far the bounces have been limited to a small skip or two and eminently controllable. I haven't yet tried wheeler landing and suspect it will require a lot of speed.

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                                #16
                                It will bounce if you cut power. Keeping a small amount of power on without stopping it sinking does tend to reduce the probability of a bounce same for the P51.

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                                  #17
                                  same for the P51
                                  And particularly the Dora. That baby will bounce more often than not unless you keep some power on at touchdown!
                                  The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    With power off also manageable, if you don't have miles of runway to stop plane it is better to touch with power off.
                                    BTW, what is your opinion about tire noise, i feel like it is too loud compare to engine for example.
                                    sigpic

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      1. Know your approach and landing speeds
                                      2. Watch the speed indicator like a hawk
                                      3. Cut throttle when coming over the threshold
                                      4. Flare to 3-point attitude
                                      YouTube Channel: "Clutch"

                                      Z390 Aorus Elite | i5-9600k @4.7Ghz | RTX2070 | 32GB DDR4 | Windows 10 | Odyssey Plus | Warthog HOTAS | 20cm Extension

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                                        #20
                                        Go to mission editor and create a landing final aproach mission (airstart with the track in front), repeat, repeat and repeat until you master it, above all, that you get used to the touch speed, them you can go and adjust the mission to do the full circuit, also windy landing too



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