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    The Battle of the Stretch Goal

    Hey everyone,

    We're scrambling to figure out how to get the stretch goal. It seems that we've reached saturation point with everything we're doing. A hardcore plane programming talk, and a more casual flight sim talk, a RPS interview, none of those seemed to have any kind of an effect on our performance.

    Is it possible to reach the remaining 35K in the last 5 days? Other projects have done that in a few hours. Even our kickstarter has easily done that on launch. So, with the right strategy, I'm still very hopeful.

    It is clear however that we need to do something drastically different.

    Let's have a discussion. Any ideas? Please let me know.

    Ideas I have are:

    1. A killer video. Lots of you are asking for a killer intro video, which could probably be beneficial if it could inspire some people who have not looked at the project previously. We'll work on that, and if you have any ideas on the subject, please let me know.

    2. New rewards? The project is confusing as it is already, I really don't know if adding MORE rewards is going to solve anything.

    3. Taking PayPal. Apparently another project has done that in the end of their kickstarter and was able to pull in a large additional sum of money. I'm not sure if we're in the same boat as that project, but do you guys really think this would help? Are there a lot of people who want to back the project but cannot because we don't accept paypal?

    4. Changes to project features. This, I think, is the biggest thing we can do at this point.

    There was a lively discussion on this subject a while ago but I did not think this could be changed so I said no.

    However the idea did stick in my head.

    When I was just planning this kickstrter out, I really thought that we'd break through the base and end up meeting a whole bunch of the stretch goals. I really thought that we'd be building a much bigger project than what it looks like today.

    That is one of the reasons why we decided to offer so many aircraft for free in the initial release. We thought we'd have a lot more aircraft altogether than what it looks like we're going to have.

    However what this ended up doing was give very little incentive for people to pledge. Lots of people feel they'll get a product for free either way. A bystander effect. Why back when you get the Spit and the 109 and the Jug for nothing? The stretch goals are so far away, giving more money seems unlikely to change much, so why bother?

    What if we do something extremely drastic and make one or even two aircraft non-free on release, while keeping them all free to existing backers? That would not affect anyone who's pledged already, but would probably excite those who did not.

    On the other hand, we could have a backlash effect and turn off a large portion of the on-the-fence community?

    So, this is my dramatic about-face and I'd really love to hear your opinions! It's definitely completely up in the air, everything is open to change.

    Free version of DCS WWII contains ONE free aircraft (to be voted for by backers).

    We have new rewards:

    $1 NEW and $10 NEW: rewards as before, but no additional aircraft (one flyable total)

    $20 NEW: access to one additional release aircraft (two total)

    $30 NEW: access to two additional release aircraft (three total)

    $40 NEW: access to three additional release aircraft (four total)

    $60 NEW: access to ALL additional release aircraft (six total if we get the Me.262)

    We'll lock down the old rewards of the same level. Anyone who's already in those OLD rewards tiers, i.e. those who backed the project on the promise of three flyable aircraft, WILL receive the three previously promised planes on release.

    5. Any other reason you think people are not backing this project? What can we do?

    I'm especially interested in hearing your opinion if you have not yet backed this project.

    #2
    Re: question 1. Enlist Glowing AAMRAAM.
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      #3
      Originally posted by Cornbread View Post
      Re: question 1. Enlist Glowing AAMRAAM.
      1+ Luthier you already know what this community is willing and able to do for this project, so if you want to publish a video with a "WOW" effect contact a skilled video maker.Mysticpuma has already done some exceptional videos for DCS WW2 and offered his help to you directly.Make sure to keep this high on your priority list for this project all the way through the development stages, release and post release.You are good at what you are experienced in, let the task you are not experienced in to those who are and are willing to do it.
      Last edited 09-29-2013, 09:12 PM.
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        #4
        My take: Only backers $40 and up will get all 3 initial release planes (Bf.109, Spitfire, P-47) for free, intermediate stretch goal (t.b.d.) at $125k to boot the KickStarter and make $150k possible.
        Not sure if killer videos will help at this point and honestly, I think MysticPuma and CharlyOwl already did an outstanding job voluntarily.
        Last edited 09-29-2013, 09:40 PM.

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          #5
          I will think about this, maybe be able to come up with something on the ideas you posted...not for nothing, but if all the existing backers would up there pledge an additional (just under $20,- bucks), then the first stretch would be met...no need of them to re-pledge, and they would keep their rewards, they need only edit the dollar amount in the manage page...I'll be the first, it's really just 1/2 of one aircraft cost
          Last edited 09-29-2013, 09:47 PM.

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            #6
            ***I think a promo movie on the development and engineering marvel that Schwalbe was would be good.

            ***I also think the Paypal option is a great idea,

            ***Not many will buy something if your giving it away for free


            I'm already in for $110.00.Best of Luck!
            sigpicPatrick

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              #7
              Luthier, my honest answer - as someone still undecided how much I can justify pledging on a very limited budget - has to be that making wholesale changes at this late stage doesn't really inspire confidence. If the 'three free planes' proposal isn't financially viable, then clearly it will have to go - but I can't see how doing this would result in increased Kickstarter funding.
              Last edited 09-29-2013, 09:48 PM. Reason: typo

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                #8
                IMO, do the Paypal, and I mean, now, not tonight, not on Monday, but now. You can't lose anything by doing it but waiting can still cost you.

                I have been in @ $250 for a while now, fwiw.
                ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1

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                  #9
                  I'm a huge DCS and WWII sim fan. I own every DCS module, but I haven't pledged yet.

                  Why? Because of the "free" thing. Money is tight, and I can't afford to pay for others to have free content. I'll feel bad and a traitor for it, but it's the most logical thing to do given the choice to have it for free.
                  But I will gladly pay for any additional content you can offer after the initial release.

                  So my suggestion would be to make the free content limited, but as good as possible. So quality not quantity. That will be the best marketing campaign you can imagine.

                  Then after the initial release, use the content you have, and use the skilled video makers that this forum can offer and make a killer trailer for "what could be". And I mean let these guys do their magic. With radio comms, voice overs and what not. Make it a small blockbuster.

                  I mean, you sold one million copies of Il-2, you gotta know there are more than 1600 simmers out there. If you make 3 DCS level WWII planes, and tie it up into a playable WWII map, you are set!

                  After that, you say jump! We ask how high?
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                    #10
                    Well at least after honoring the backers that were promised the 3 initial flyables, I think it is a great idea to indeed just offer one flyable afterwards.3 planes is just too much, specially for a highly detailed and labor intensive models like the ones on DCS.So after the kickstarter ends you can start re structuring the offers at release, make a poll and let the audience pick the aircraft they believe should be free with DCS WW2 and put a reasonable price on the other two.

                    I suggest that the free flyable should be the Thunderbolt.That way the fighter jockeys who want to get their hands on the Spit or 109 will need to reach their pocket and give you some cash.Again this change needs to be after the Kickstarter ends just to avoid a chaotic confusion which could hurt the project.
                    Last edited 09-29-2013, 10:03 PM.
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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Royraiden View Post
                      Well at least after honoring the backers that were promised the 3 initial flyables, I think it is a great idea to indeed just offer one flyable afterwards.
                      Wait, that's a possibility? Within kickstarter rules?

                      That would be a no brainer then, I would be forced to pledge immediately.
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by hegykc View Post
                        Wait, that's a possibility? Within kickstarter rules?

                        That would be a no brainer then, I would be forced to pledge immediately.
                        Maybe I didnt explain my thoughts clearly,promising 3 aircraft to backers and then only giving them one is NOT what I meant.Im talking about the final product offerings for the general public ie. those who didnt pledge during the Kickstarter.
                        Last edited 09-29-2013, 10:07 PM.
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                          #13
                          Originally posted by hegykc View Post
                          Wait, that's a possibility? Within kickstarter rules?

                          That would be a no brainer then, I would be forced to pledge immediately.
                          From the Kickstarter guidelines it seems entirely possible to change the goals of a project during a campaign. You can't change the rewards once you have some pledges for them, but reversing on the promise to deliver a free game and airplanes could be entirely changed. I think it would be a not only smart, but vital move for the project.

                          MAC

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                            #14
                            Yeah, so backers get 3 for free. Anybody downloading the final release gets 1. Better yet, make that free one with some limitations.

                            That would make me, and a lot of others, pledge immediately!

                            The only ones that would get mad about that, are the ones that have no interest in paying ever. I'm sure it wouldn't bother a single supporter.
                            Last edited 09-29-2013, 10:10 PM.
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                              #15
                              OK, if Paypal is not to costy/complex to add that obviously is something many have been talking about... But I would definitely go the path of having only free one plane in the initial release! I would have liked to have a Harvard (usable for realistic training missions) or a C-47 (actually important for the D-Day setting - and it could be sold for $39 or so in DCS world as a DC-3 to drag some old FSX guys that way).

                              But - as you have the plane set ready I'd say have the P-47 as free then... Why? It's cool looking but "from the man on the street" it would not be choice number one, and who would not like to have a Spitfire after a while... And a 109 to match it? I guess some people would be content with just the Spitfire and the 109 and even skip the P-47. So have that one as free and the "ladder" in rewards you proposed sounds good!

                              And regarding upsetting the fence sitters that wait to get 3 planes for free I guess they understand that it was too generous anyway?

                              Good luck! /mazex
                              i7 4790k @ 4.5 | RTX 2080 (latest drivers) | Asus Z97-A MB | 16GB DDR3 1600 Mhz | Sound BlasterX AE-5 | Windows 10 x64 | Virpil T-50 Throttle | T50 CM2 Grip + WarBRD | VKB T-rudder MK IV | Valve Index

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                                #16
                                Originally posted by hegykc View Post
                                Yeah, so backers get 3 for free. Anybody downloading the final release gets 1. Better yet, make that free one with some limitations.

                                That would make me, and a lot of others, pledge immediately!
                                Im pretty sure it was a mistake, but when you have people giving you their money while being promised they will get something and then you give them less than promised, that would be a low blow and could hurt the reputation of the team.Now as I said, after the kickstarter, if there is another crowd funding or simply the final product offering we cant have 3 flyables for free.
                                Last edited 09-29-2013, 10:16 PM.
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                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by Royraiden View Post
                                  I dont think thats a good idea.Im pretty sure it was a mistake, but when you have people giving you their money while being promised they will get something and then you give them less than promised, that would be a low blow and could hurt the reputation of the team.Now as I said, after the kickstarter, if there is another crowd funding or simply the final product offering we cant have 3 flyables for free.

                                  and is a strong incentive for those still on the fence, to grab the planes within the 5 remaining days

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                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by AndyJWest View Post
                                    Luthier, my honest answer - as someone still undecided how much I can justify pledging on a very limited budget - has to be that making wholesale changes at this late stage doesn't really inspire confidence. If the 'three free planes' proposal isn't financially viable, then clearly it will have to go - but I can't see how doing this would result in increased Kickstarter funding.
                                    I tend to agree.

                                    As it stands I see several obstacles, most of which are pretty much insurmountable at this stage:

                                    1. There have been a few high profile Kickstarter debacles in the news recently which may have shaken people's confidence in this whole business model:


                                    2. Many people in the community still feel burnt by the Cliffs of Dover experience. The rights, wrongs and details of what actually occurred are unimportant compared to people's individual perceptions of what happened. Some people (like myself) are willing to give you another shot. Many others are not. This may be unfair and frustrating, but it's an unavoidable truth.

                                    3. Many people that are on the fence (especially those that are distrustful after the issues around Cliffs of Dover) aren't going to commit until they see something tangible that they can buy into. As it stands, you have little more than words and good intentions to offer. This isn't going to be enough to move those that are sitting on the fence.

                                    4. The frequent changes of focus (first you were going for a brand new audience, then you shifted to the hardcore), the increasingly complex/confusing pledge rewards, the indecisiveness over stretch goals, the rather amateurish videos and the general lack of communication with the community make the whole endeavour seem rather unprofessional and poorly thought out.

                                    I don't mean any of this to sound nasty or personal (I really, really don't), but it's very pertinent to the issue at hand. Whatever the rights and wrongs of it, there are concerns around your ability to deliver what you promise and the execution of the Kickstarter to date has arguably done more to reinforce those worries than address them.

                                    I don't see these "trust issues" as something that can easily be addressed in the near future. Your best bet from my perspective is to focus on "right sizing" the project and then executing on it to a very high degree of quality. If you can do this in addition to having a coherent, workable long term financial strategy, you'll begin to win the doubters back and make money in the process.

                                    I would absolutely start by giving just ONE free aircraft with the initial launch of DCS: WII. You're looking to entice people into your world, not give the whole thing away for free.

                                    Regardless - best of luck with the endeavour. I really hope you can make it work in terms of both quality and revenue.
                                    i7-7700K @ 4.9Ghz | 16Gb DDR4 @ 3200Mhz | MSI Z270 Gaming M7 | MSI GeForce GTX 1080ti Gaming X | Win 10 Home | Thrustmaster Warthog | MFG Crosswind pedals | Oculus Rift S

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                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by GT 5.0 View Post
                                      and is a strong incentive for those still on the fence, to grab the planes within the 5 remaining days
                                      Of course it would, my main concern is that even if explained properly and in depth a lot of backers will simply start complaining thinking that they wouldnt get the promised 3 flyables.So I keep suggesting that we let the project be as it is and start restructuring right after it closes and the money is secure.
                                      Last edited 09-29-2013, 10:27 PM.
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                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Royraiden View Post
                                        Im pretty sure it was a mistake, but when you have people giving you their money while being promised they will get something and then you give them less than promised, that would be a low blow and could hurt the reputation of the team.Now as I said, after the kickstarter, if there is another crowd funding or simply the final product offering we cant have 3 flyables for free.
                                        No promises would be broken to people that gave money. They get their 3 planes for "free", of for their pledge.

                                        The only promise broken would be to anyone that hasn't pledged.

                                        I'm pretty sure these modules make more than 200.000$ revenue in the first year. And WWII ones would do much better. So with 3 free ones, you're basically giving away a cool million of development money.
                                        Last edited 09-29-2013, 10:25 PM.
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