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The Battle of the Stretch Goal

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    #81
    Originally posted by luthier1 View Post
    PS I just realized the perfect way to hit those stretch goals.

    Add a new $100 reward level. Offer a tell-all novel about the events of the past few years.

    Oooh. If only
    That would have to be $500 for a series of books from series of people, even then it would mostly likely be 90% fiction from each author.

    You think autobiographies are the truth?

    I would buy you a pie and a pint though and listen to your side if your ever in the UK again Luthier, you look like you could do with both, well maybe not the pie.

    I hope you get all this sorted, and get to make your own sim, the way you want.

    Good luck from me Luthier.
    Last edited 09-30-2013, 03:32 AM.

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      #82
      I'm embarrassed to admit, but I have not pledged yet. But all this talk of making only 1 plane free to non-backers has me reaching for my wallet.

      So I say, do that! Make only 1 plane free to the general non-kickstarting public. That way I'll have no excuse not to pledge.

      --NoJoe

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        #83
        Well according to what was just said you could pledge the $1 amount and still receive the 3 planes free.

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          #84
          I think I'll be doing the $40 level. I've been eyeing that one ever since the announcement, but haven't done it yet. I think the reason why I haven't pulled the trigger is that money is tight, and if I was going to receive 3 DCS-level planes for free anyway, why pay?

          I mean, don't get me wrong, I definitely want to support this project! But I think that's what's going on in my head subconsciously. Now suddenly if I'll need to pay to get those planes, that's what'll get me off the fence and into a pledge. And I'll bet there are a bunch of people out there just like me.

          --NoJoe

          Comment


            #85
            Seeing how the other third party developers are working and planning to release their modules I think this project was thought a bit too optimistic.

            100 000$ for developing a map and 3-4 planes close to DCS P-51 standard is too little I think.

            5 Days remained and nothing can be done to change the outcome of this funding. My opinion is you should drop the free content altogether to reduce costs and avoid stalling the project.

            Create just a big beautiful map (please drop the enthusiasm killer of 120km wide map) and use P51 and Dora as only planes available (not for free). Then you can advertise new planes that the backers will get for free after development.

            Also lower the emphasis on new game, new game world etc... make a module that people already understand without dividing the community.
            Last edited 09-30-2013, 06:32 AM.
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              #86
              Originally posted by zaelu View Post
              100 000$ for developing a map and 3-4 planes close to DCS P-51 standard is too little I think.
              Oh that's not the entire development budget BY FAR.

              It's stated in the main kickstarter text and I've noted this a couple of times, but I guess it gets lost in all the other text.

              We would have done DCS WWII anyway even if the kickstarter had failed. We'd just have to do it quicker and cheaper, and therefore not do quite as much not quite as well as we're going to do now.

              Plus, of course, the kickstarter opened up the opportunity to add more content such as the 262. We're still hoping it can do that.

              But yes of course, if we only had the 100K and nothing else, we wouldn't be able to do anything.

              Comment


                #87
                Originally posted by ff4life4
                I agree zaelu. I think they shot themselves in the foot by offering 3 aircraft of DCS quality for free. Seeing how long it takes ED to produce the Dora, or any 3rd party producing a module shows how much time and effort it takes to do a proper job.

                $100,000 may not be enough

                The kickstarter is for funding beta testing not for the aircraft

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                  #88
                  Luthier, I was saying kicking in an extra 20.- each, just because we want to reach the first stretch and get the 262, while not looking for additional rewards

                  Comment


                    #89
                    My advice: Don't change promises to anyone that have backed or will back your kickstarter till it's over with such small time left.
                    For funding you need credibility to unite backers with the same conditions.

                    Decisions being so late...
                    The longer the wait the more unreasonable it can become. (A sad point generally in life when it comes to money, not personally meant to anyone)
                    Analysis of the kickstarter model were being discussed after day 1. Opting for a sustainable business model for you with ideas and those changes.

                    It's just a matter of being realistic about your business model instead of checking funding results. I also find too much stress has been put on backers that already backed for higher pledges. Instead of attracting new backers. The passion you showed and love for the genre has been answered by fans in your kickstarter. The whole community (backers and non-backers(i.e. no cc but paypallers)) did a lot of the PR work.

                    In fact too much is asked now and done too little early on.

                    *Paypal option should have been provided and setup before the moment we reached the 100k goal(so no risk in refunding all funds on that), but still is possible ofcourse and maybe the best option. Even for continuation.


                    If it's a miscalcuation then the whole KS 100k goal was with the promises.
                    A mistake in the KS idea and should have been corrected as fast as possible.


                    A change that non-backers receive 1 aircraft is I think good option for a business model as the game is a free download. With such a change non-backers can't really complain and but they need to back the KS quickly. Although many will be too late to step in, realising the change after the KS is closed in a few days. Ofcourse those potential backers should have been in the pocket.

                    The popularity(attraction of newer simmers) remains to be seen at the launch. It's important to make the impact there. Hype it to the launch, by showing off the quality! (really massively).
                    Last edited 09-30-2013, 08:21 AM.

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                      #90
                      All right folks, pretty much ready to hit Publish on the new changes on KS that reset the NON BACKER free game to one flyable aircraft.

                      While opinions differ, I will not change anything with any existing rewards tiers. I.e. if you had backed at $1 before, or will back at $1 at any time before Oct 5, you WILL receive the three currently stated free aircraft.

                      I could have locked down the current $1 tier and made the extra aircraft available later, but it'll just add to the confusion.

                      I also just spent a few hours trying to refine the rewards matrix and it's just impossible. I tried once again to simplify everything and bring it up to a common denominator. Just choose a number of add-ons you want, and pledge accordingly, and then choose the rewards you want, manuals, alpha access, etc.

                      It's just a nightmare of confusion even for myself. Most importantly, things just cost differently, and it's already reflected in existing rewards. I cannot price a t-shirt the same as a copy of a FW.190D in DCS World. If I average things out, that makes things look weird and overly expensive compared to old rewards. Most importantly, we already have a gazillion rewards, and I cannot edit or hide these. Changes like these mean adding a whole bunch of new rewards while keeping all the existing ones visible. Trying to choose the correct one then will just drive the new people crazy.

                      Also, yes, the main idea is to add new people to the backers list. I am incredibly thankful to the people who have already pledged, and I'm definitely not saying it enough. Continuing to ask you for more and more money is just plain wrong.

                      Anyway, I'll sleep on the changes to the overall KS, and either hit Publish in the morning, or not. In the end, we have already reached our goal. Is a flyable Me.262 worth making yet another drastic change in the project?

                      Comment


                        #91
                        Thank you for your consideration.

                        It's about love and passion that needs to be transferred in the sim. Take time to do additional planes and with it's quality, it will be easy to sell those planes. For continuational work.
                        Last edited 09-30-2013, 08:44 AM.

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                          #92
                          Luthier,

                          My feeling is that the decision reaches way further than just achieving or not achieving the Me262 stretchgoal. But of course only you and your investors can know how deep your pockets are and if you really can afford to forgo all future revenues from the Spit, the Kurfürst and the Jug.

                          I don't think you should, from my limited viewpoint.

                          MAC

                          Comment


                            #93
                            and PayPal?

                            Comment


                              #94
                              Originally posted by luthier1 View Post

                              Anyway, I'll sleep on the changes to the overall KS, and either hit Publish in the morning, or not. In the end, we have already reached our goal. Is a flyable Me.262 worth making yet another drastic change in the project?
                              Oh yes it is What would possibly make you think it's not? You don't brake any pledging conditions for those who has backed already. 'Bad press'? Those making you a 'bad press' were doing it anyway.

                              Also, mark my words , these 3 free flyables are going to drag you down long after you publish the game. TDCS aircrafts ate enough to cover months and months of gaming for many people and you won't get a dime from them. So it's not only about 262.
                              Last edited 09-30-2013, 08:55 AM.

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                                #95
                                I have been holding off on pledging, and at this point I'm unlikely to. So take what I say with a grain of salt.

                                Threatening those of us who haven't pledged with taking away the free planes will not get you to the stretch goal. If anything, it strengthens my doubts: you cannot run a simple kickstarter without flailing all over the place, how can I expect you to run an actual project?

                                In exchange, you will cripple your end product by having not just one plane, but only one side freely available. As a platform, DCS:WW2 will need multiplayer to become popular, like all F2P games do. How will that work if every new player flies for the Allies?

                                You set up the kickstarter with an unrealistic set of goals, then made constant and confusing changes even you can't understand now. Your promotional material consists mainly of guys talking in a language 90% of your customer base can't understand, and screens and videos of other games.

                                Now that it hasn't worked, you are threatening to take your toys and go home unless we throw money at you. Nothing of this inspires any confidence.

                                Comment


                                  #96
                                  @JackDant
                                  How is that threatening? Too many free aircraft was a mistake. This would be merely a correction.

                                  You have a point with the free A/C for one side only and MP though.

                                  Comment


                                    #97
                                    Originally posted by JackDant View Post
                                    I have been holding off on pledging, and at this point I'm unlikely to. So take what I say with a grain of salt.

                                    Threatening those of us who haven't pledged with taking away the free planes will not get you to the stretch goal. If anything, it strengthens my doubts: you cannot run a simple kickstarter without flailing all over the place, how can I expect you to run an actual project?

                                    In exchange, you will cripple your end product by having not just one plane, but only one side freely available. As a platform, DCS:WW2 will need multiplayer to become popular, like all F2P games do. How will that work if every new player flies for the Allies?

                                    You set up the kickstarter with an unrealistic set of goals, then made constant and confusing changes even you can't understand now. Your promotional material consists mainly of guys talking in a language 90% of your customer base can't understand, and screens and videos of other games.

                                    Now that it hasn't worked, you are threatening to take your toys and go home unless we throw money at you. Nothing of this inspires any confidence.

                                    Well the game will go forward, so your decision is most certainly a big mistake. That is of course if you decide one day that you want to finally get into it, it may be expensive.

                                    Comment


                                      #98
                                      Originally posted by Bucic View Post
                                      @JackDant
                                      How is that threatening? Too many free aircraft was a mistake. This would be merely a correction.
                                      One free aircraft for each country made perfect sense and is not a "mistake" until you take the limited budget into account. Even then, fixing that "mistake" reeks of desperation and strong-armed tactics and is exactly the opposite message to the one doubtful pledgers need.

                                      Comment


                                        #99
                                        no, it wasn't a mistake.

                                        it was the best decision for the future which could be taken considering the sale model they've decided for: a free base game + payments for any other present/future modules.

                                        in order to attract customers, the base module of the game must contain the engine and something flyable for them to test it. the three free aircrafts were one for each major side in the european conflict: germans + british + american, increasing the chances to attract customers via the free base model.

                                        now, probably they could have went for only two airplanes, one for axis and the other for allies, and a spitfire would have been the normal decision for the allies side, as an iconic plane (the other P51 one being already present into DCSW). and that would have left the massive american customers base without an american carrot to drag them in, hence the P47 choice as a 3rd base module free airplane.

                                        including them for free wasn't a bad decision at all, specially considering the long term effect.

                                        removing them and leaving only one has two major problems:
                                        a) as the remaining included airplane will definitely be an allied one (and most probably american), the free players will only join the allied side, creating a huge imbalance in the game.
                                        b) the willingness to remove two from the three base modules free planes shows a bad willingness to ditch long term benefits and actually accept long term base problems in exchange for short term funding, which is at least concerning for me..

                                        Comment


                                          Originally posted by luthier1 View Post
                                          and I'm definitely not saying it enough. Continuing to ask you for more and more money is just plain wrong.

                                          Anyway, I'll sleep on the changes to the overall KS, and either hit Publish in the morning, or not. In the end, we have already reached our goal. Is a flyable Me.262 worth making yet another drastic change in the project?
                                          Am no so sure but its your call.

                                          Changing to one free aircraft is a good idea tho!
                                          YouTube
                                          TimeKilla on Flight Sims over at YouTube.

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