Trim Impossible

[Habu_69]

I find the P-51D impossible to trim for level flight, even though I have programmed my HOTAS to issue a single button press for the trim commands. I can observe that a single trim command key press rotates the trim wheels several degrees, in a "digital" fashion. Therefore the trim is invariably slightly nose-up or slightly nose-down, for example, and the pitch trim function is not fine enough to achieve hands-off level flight.

[=Pedro=]

You have to be very gentle with the trim. Short touches on the hat ;)

[Art-J]

^ What he said. Don't press and hold the trim button like in Il-2 '46 and CloD. Instead, tap it.

 

P-51 is actually the only warbird in the game which can be trimmed into almost hands-off flight with keys or buttons.

[Habu_69]

My post clearly states that my HOTAS is programmed to make ONE key press per tap, usually 20 to 50 ms. I can trim the aircraft to ALMOST level flight. I confess that I have not experimented with mouse-click on the trim wheels.

[=Pedro=]

That's weird. There is no need to trim using mouse-click on the trim wheels. What HOTAS do you have and what switches.buttons/hats did you map ?

[Art-J]

Gotta admit I've never used any profiler software for my Warthog, I use direct assignments and keyboard taps for trimming, don't know what default response angle per impulse is programmed in this case (not to mention it's different for all DCS warbirds). It's certainly less than possible with mouse, though.

 

That being said, I'm not sure hands-off trim is possible in Mustang for longer period of time anyway. Certainly not in roll axis, because of permanently asymmetric fuel feed from wing tanks, and certainly not in pitch axis with any fuel in rear tank because of constant shift of CoG. The "almost" state I'm getting has always been good enough for me.

[Habu_69]

Just observe the trim wheels when you tap the trim button. Looks to me like about 5D of rotation.

[imacken]

Just observe the trim wheels when you tap the trim button. Looks to me like about 5D of rotation.

FWIW, I have no trouble trimming the Mustang level. I have trim mapped to the trim switch on the Warthog HOTAS.

[Captain Orso]

I don't think you can expect to be able to trim any aircraft to hold any course or altitude absolutely true. It's similar to driving a car. Even on the straightest of roads, you cannot find a steering wheel position which will keep you absolutely in the middle of your lane indefinitely. You will always find yourself constantly make minute adjustments.

[MegOhm_SD]

I can trim the Mustang easily with the WH HOTAS Trim button with 40 to 42 MP, level and fly pretty much hands free until I disturb the line. Thats right, not forever lol. Actually, not bad up to 45.

 

You should be able to do the same. Try 40 - 42 MP level flight, then trim and see what that does for you.

 

Yeah taps on the button. Dont screw with the trim wheels if you can map it.

 

Damn Torque, damned physics, sheesh!

Edited February 6, 2018 by MegOhm_SD

[=Pedro=]

You have to get used to it ;)

[panzerd18]

The issue is the resolution of the trim.

 

From instance what is actually needed is, for every trim button push, trim wheel will travel only quarter or half of what it actually travels now.

 

You shouldn't run into the situation whereby you click trim up once, aircraft climbs, you click trim down once and aircraft descends. The trim wheel needs to offer much finer adjustments if you need to trim to a specific altitude.

 

This trim sensitivity seems to have carried over into other modules. This makes me wonder if the Beta testers are actually flying the aircraft to maintain trim at a specific altitude or not. Because if there were, this bug would have been discovered.

 

Very simple fix, turn down the rate at which one trim button push affects the trim. We need finer adjustment.

[Svsmokey]

I find that with aircraft with overly-sensitive pitch trim , the workaround is to make minute throttle adjustments to fine-tune the pitch . If your trim state is slightly pitched up , just take a few rpm off , and she'll settle to level .

"Stick and Rudder" - still the greatest book ever written on how an aircraft actually flies , describes why this works .

[Bowie]

I use the keyboard arrow keys.

 

 

[up] is Down (Pitch)

[Down] is Up (Pitch)

 

 

and

are Rudder (Yaw)

 

 

[Ctrl]+

and [Ctrl]+

are Aileron (Roll)

 

 

Very intuitive and easy to use.

 

 

The keys are used "tap"/"Dbl. Tap"/"Hold" for small/med./large changes.

 

 

Also understand that the FM also includes P-factor, so a Yaw correction will induce a pitch moment.

 

 

Welcome to Real Flying.

 

 

8>)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bowie

[grafspee]

I use mouse scroll for fine tuning.

But it is not possible to trim it for stable flight, it will eventual drop off from set path.

Edited June 10, 2020 by grafspee

[SMH]

Very simple fix, turn down the rate at which one trim button push affects the trim. We need finer adjustment.

 

Yep. Provide 6 new button mappings for FINE TRIM that move the wheels much slower than the existing trim mappings do. Easy. (Or at least would be in a well managed software development environment.)

[Enduro14]

Yep. Provide 6 new button mappings for FINE TRIM that move the wheels much slower than the existing trim mappings do. Easy. (Or at least would be in a well managed software development environment.)

 

How about you take your negativity and trolling elsewhere. You don’t provide any useful information on this thread nor the others you are spamming :thumbup:

[SMH]

How about you take your negativity and trolling elsewhere. You don’t provide any useful information on this thread nor the others you are spamming :thumbup:

 

I literally just solved the problem. I'll type it in for them if they want to send me the source code (as if).

 

It's you fanboys who are the toxic ones around here.

[Bowie]

I literally just solved the problem. I'll type it in for them if they want to send me the source code (as if).

 

It's you fanboys who are the toxic ones around here.

 

 

Try the arrow keys as described.

 

 

The controls are off and to the side on Warbirds anyway, and they get a lot of use.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bowie

[Art-J]

SMH, you're trying to solve the problem which doesn't exist. P-51 is the only module that already has such an implementation, in form of non-linear trim response to buttons/keys with no extra mappings necessary. Slow at first, going faster if the input is kept pressed. By tapping the keys the plane can be trimmed for almost hands-off flight for a few minutes (it will never be 100% hands-off anyway, because of assymetric fuel draw from tanks).

 

Now, if only this implementation was used in remaining warbirds... They're all over the place with how trim responses are programmed. Lack of consistency, THAT is the problem.

[SMH]

SMH, you're trying to solve the problem which doesn't exist. P-51 is the only module that already has such an implementation, in form of non-linear trim response to buttons/keys with no extra mappings necessary. Slow at first, going faster if the input is kept pressed. By tapping the keys the plane can be trimmed for almost hands-off flight for a few minutes (it will never be 100% hands-off anyway, because of assymetric fuel draw from tanks).

 

Now, if only this implementation was used in remaining warbirds... They're all over the place with how trim responses are programmed. Lack of consistency, THAT is the problem.

 

I'm okay with the rate the Mustang's trim wheels move and accelerate at. But I see no reason not to provide a FINE control for those who want it.

 

You're absolutely right about standardization. There's tons of issues like that. (Like, which direction a toggle switch goes when you click left vs. right mouse buttons. It's kind of consistent, except when it isn't.)