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    P51 engine managment

    Hi guys, can anyone advice me on proper engine management? For 2 days in a row when I flew a default mission I would kill the engine. I did warm it prior departure and flew on cruise according to limitations. Around 27 rpm and about 45-46 mp. After about 20 min engine just dies, in the log it says engine overrevved. Is it a module bug or am I doing it wrong? Any help would be appreciated. Update: I noticed the mission weather is only +4 C, and during flight, carb. temperature dropped below green mark. Is it related? Should I warm engine more on ground before take off under certain weather conditions?
    Last edited 10-23-2020, 07:26 AM.

    #2
    Forget about carb. temp. Just ignore it, it is something what you can not change and it have not influence on damage engine. There is no icing conditions in DCS W.

    Do you perform any oil dilute before you start engine? Oil at 4°C is too cold and after start, oil pressure will be too hight. Try it for 15-20sec.

    What is usualy your speed during that 20 mins before engine dies? What is your oil and coolant controls setting? And of course oil and coolant temperatures during that 20 mins?
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      #3
      Originally posted by nikitatattoo View Post
      Hi guys, can anyone advice me on proper engine management? For 2 days in a row when I flew a default mission I would kill the engine. I did warm it prior departure and flew on cruise according to limitations. Around 27 rpm and about 45-46 mp. After about 20 min engine just dies, in the log it says engine overrevved. Is it a module bug or am I doing it wrong? Any help would be appreciated. Update: I noticed the mission weather is only +4 C, and during flight, carb. temperature dropped below green mark. Is it related? Should I warm engine more on ground before take off under certain weather conditions?

      Pls try provide more info, foe example what does mean warm up in you book, you should be taking off with 60C coolant and 40C oil.
      Another thing, did you take off using max rpm or lower rpm. and what MP you get.
      Did you noticed any speed drop before engine fail. What kind of engine fail was it. Instant engine stop or just lost of power.
      Last edited 10-23-2020, 05:31 PM.
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        #4
        Controls on auto and temps all in green, or at least below the red zone. I haven't tried to dilute tbh. My personal suspicion is that I overlooked RPM and mp at some point.. In the debrief it sait engine overrevved. What does it mean?

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          #5
          Originally posted by saburo_cz View Post
          Forget about carb. temp. Just ignore it, it is something what you can not change and it have not influence on damage engine. There is no icing conditions in DCS W.

          Do you perform any oil dilute before you start engine? Oil at 4°C is too cold and after start, oil pressure will be too hight. Try it for 15-20sec.

          What is usualy your speed during that 20 mins before engine dies? What is your oil and coolant controls setting? And of course oil and coolant temperatures during that 20 mins?
          Carb temp, we can change carb temp via carb heat handle
          If it comes to diluting oil, you doing it after engine start up, to make quick take off, with diluting you can take off with 15C oil w/o exceeding oil pressure limit.
          Diluting oil with engine stopped will create concentrated volume of fuel in single place and this is not good idea, you want to dilute oil gradually while oil is circulating in oil system.

          4C ambient temp is far from extreme cold weather, so oil dilution isn't necessary here.
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            #6
            Originally posted by nikitatattoo View Post
            Controls on auto and temps all in green, or at least below the red zone. I haven't tried to dilute tbh. My personal suspicion is that I overlooked RPM and mp at some point.. In the debrief it sait engine overrevved. What does it mean?
            For me it can mean only 2 things, that you was flying with too high rpm for MP(3000rpm and throttle cut out.). Which mean extreme under boost.
            ED was talking about main bearings damage after engine being under boosted. But i'm not sure if V12 suffer from this.
            Another option is that this log is just broken.
            You cant over rev engine in P-51, unless you got your governor knocked out in fight.
            Last edited 10-23-2020, 05:39 PM.
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              #7
              Originally posted by grafspee View Post


              Pls try provide more info, foe example what does mean warm up in you book, you should be taking off with 60C coolant and 40C oil.
              Another thing, did you take off using max rpm or lower rpm. and what MP you get.
              Did you noticed any speed drop before engine fail. What kind of engine fail was it. Instant engine stop or just lost of power.
              40 and 60 was there. Took off on max RPM but didn't check mp, it was full throttle. During cruise was no indications, all temps were in green(I think). Both times engine froze and prop wasn't spinning. Debrief said engine overrevved...

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                #8
                Originally posted by nikitatattoo View Post

                40 and 60 was there. Took off on max RPM but didn't check mp, it was full throttle. During cruise was no indications, all temps were in green(I think). Both times engine froze and prop wasn't spinning. Debrief said engine overrevved...
                Sudden engine seizure is very common for engine fail while flying over boosted. But over revved this is first time i see it
                if you took off with throttle full this mean 61"3000rpm. Could you possibly reduce rpm before reducing MP after take off?
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by grafspee View Post
                  Sudden engine seizure is very common for engine fail while flying over boosted. But over revved this is first time i see it
                  if you took off with throttle full this mean 61"3000rpm. Could you possibly reduce rpm before reducing MP after take off?
                  could be, im not entirely sure. ill have to fly a bit more and see what happens. i'll also pay more attention to mp and rpm. but overall i've seen quite a few posts about mustangs engine failures

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by nikitatattoo View Post
                    Hi guys, can anyone advice me on proper engine management? For 2 days in a row when I flew a default mission I would kill the engine. I did warm it prior departure and flew on cruise according to limitations. Around 27 rpm and about 45-46 mp. After about 20 min engine just dies, in the log it says engine overrevved. Is it a module bug or am I doing it wrong? Any help would be appreciated. Update: I noticed the mission weather is only +4 C, and during flight, carb. temperature dropped below green mark. Is it related? Should I warm engine more on ground before take off under certain weather conditions?

                    Well, that's a common mistake among new P-51 users, me included, many years ago.
                    The P-51 is a fast thing, but it is a misconception that these warbirds are always full throttle on. They are not. They are overpowered beasts, as someone put it, and you need to take care of the engine. Good care.

                    Once you enter the cockpit, if you look at the right, you'll find the Engine Limitations plate. It shows all the limitations the engine has om MP and on RPM. Flying 2700 rpm and mp at 46 inches is only for takeoffs and climbs. Once climbing and gear raised, you have to change to 2400 rpm and 36" MP, per the maximum cruise table.

                    The only gauge you must keep an eye all the time is the Oil temperature gauge. Don't trust the Automatic Radiator controls, they are very poor to control engine temperature at takeoffs, climbs, dogfighting and ground attack. I only leave them on Auto during cruise and landings.

                    The overrev condition maybe the effect of overtemping the engine; in overtemp the governor stops working and the engine overrev.

                    Carb temp does not matter. Oil temp (on the tri engine gauge) is life for you. Although the table says 2700 rpm and 46" MP for maximum continuous, this condition depends on the Oil temperature.If the engine is cool, or better, in the greenzone, you can push the engine to the max continuous. However, remember that you've just took off and climbed, the engine is already stressed and with a high temperature. So, it is better to get level, run the engine at cruise settings and let it cool down.

                    Here is a video by the Grim Reapers showing how NOT damage your P-51 engine. (I know the Grim Reapers are not the best teachers out there, but for a simple explanation it will do).



                    Aaaannndd...for a deep explanation of things, I highly recommend Chuck's Guides on the P-51:

                    https://www.mudspike.com/wp-content/...1D%20Guide.pdf



                    This is an amazing sim! 'Nuff said!

                    YouTube: SloppyDog

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                      #11
                      For take off you need to use 3000rpm and at least 50" of MP, in order to clear engine after ground operations.
                      You take off always with rpm handle full forward.
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by RodBorza View Post


                        Carb temp does not matter. Oil temp (on the tri engine gauge) is life for you. Although the table says 2700 rpm and 46" MP for maximum continuous, this condition depends on the Oil temperature. If the engine is cool, or better, in the greenzone, you can push the engine to the max continuous. However, remember that you've just took off and climbed, the engine is already stressed and with a high temperature. So, it is better to get level, run the engine at cruise settings and let it cool down.
                        After take off you reduce MP to 46" then reduce rpm to 2700rpm and you climb to cruising alt, then you drop to cruise power settings.
                        I've flown P-51 in dcs at military power from take off to 42k ft w/o any engine fail.
                        You need to watch oil temp, but only in hot day, this mission has 4C only so no problem with oil temp.
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                          #13
                          Mission log said engine overrevved so maybe you slammed throttle too fast and you did overrevved engine at take off. Try to apply 46" at beginning and then add up to 61"
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                            #14
                            Thanks for all the input guys,appreciate it. In regards to radiator contols,should i have them open all the time, except cruise? I saw a video of spudknocker and noticed he had them open as well during ground attack

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by nikitatattoo View Post
                              Thanks for all the input guys,appreciate it. In regards to radiator contols,should i have them open all the time, except cruise? I saw a video of spudknocker and noticed he had them open as well during ground attack
                              In my opinion Radiators do fine on auto, I personally open coolant radiator before take off, and before when i expect to slow down rapidly(for example when i am about to go vertical to catch guy which went vertical as well )
                              Oil radiator i leave on auto all the time, i've never ever encounter any problems here, cooling is sufficient, i never saw oil temp going beyond red line.
                              My only concern is overall coolant cooling efficiency, P-51 really starts to struggle keeping coolant under red line when temp is above 20C, if you let coolant on AUTO before take off if it will shoot beyond red line coolant temp.
                              In hot day at high alt you cant do anything by flying straight at full power, if you slow down, try any dog fight even with all coolers wide open you will cook.
                              At 4C ambient temp problems with cooling should not appear yet.
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                                #16
                                Originally posted by grafspee View Post

                                In my opinion Radiators do fine on auto, I personally open coolant radiator before take off, and before when i expect to slow down rapidly(for example when i am about to go vertical to catch guy which went vertical as well )
                                Oil radiator i leave on auto all the time, i've never ever encounter any problems here, cooling is sufficient, i never saw oil temp going beyond red line.
                                My only concern is overall coolant cooling efficiency, P-51 really starts to struggle keeping coolant under red line when temp is above 20C, if you let coolant on AUTO before take off if it will shoot beyond red line coolant temp.
                                In hot day at high alt you cant do anything by flying straight at full power, if you slow down, try any dog fight even with all coolers wide open you will cook.
                                At 4C ambient temp problems with cooling should not appear yet.
                                yeah I did notice that if outside temps are around 20C it does get warm a lot quicker and keeps me more paranoid. However in a colder environment I don't have to keep checking every 2 min. I never expected it would be so much to manage in it But hopefully its a good practise before i try out jets

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                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by nikitatattoo View Post

                                  yeah I did notice that if outside temps are around 20C it does get warm a lot quicker and keeps me more paranoid. However in a colder environment I don't have to keep checking every 2 min. I never expected it would be so much to manage in it But hopefully its a good practise before i try out jets
                                  The warbirds are good practice all right. Learning to fly them with all the torques, forces, reactions, etc, is valuable, is where you really learn how to be a good pilot. Warbirds are hard to fly and easy on the systems, modern jets like the F-16, F-18 are easy to fly, hard on the systems.
                                  This is an amazing sim! 'Nuff said!

                                  YouTube: SloppyDog

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                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by RodBorza View Post

                                    The warbirds are good practice all right. Learning to fly them with all the torques, forces, reactions, etc, is valuable, is where you really learn how to be a good pilot. Warbirds are hard to fly and easy on the systems, modern jets like the F-16, F-18 are easy to fly, hard on the systems.
                                    Yeah, to be honest manuals for some modules scare me. Just the amount of reading. Do you think its worth to try flaming cliffs style first? Or go straight with full fidelity? And which module you think would be best for beginner?

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                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by nikitatattoo View Post

                                      Yeah, to be honest manuals for some modules scare me. Just the amount of reading. Do you think its worth to try flaming cliffs style first? Or go straight with full fidelity? And which module you think would be best for beginner?
                                      Go full fidelity. Might be a bit scary at first, but in the end quite rewarding.

                                      And which one for a beginner: That totally depends what you are interested in. I could recommend you the F-5 for example, but if you like props more then it's just "wasted".

                                      But my rule of thumb: The older the tech, the "easier" it is.

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                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by razo+r View Post

                                        Go full fidelity. Might be a bit scary at first, but in the end quite rewarding.

                                        And which one for a beginner: That totally depends what you are interested in. I could recommend you the F-5 for example, but if you like props more then it's just "wasted".

                                        But my rule of thumb: The older the tech, the "easier" it is.
                                        Agree, early jets require some special care for engine, like mig-21, f-86, f-5, mig-15,f-14 those require some engine management, but newer planes like f-18 f-16, harrier, those are almost fool proof in engine management department.
                                        Weapon systems become extremely complex in more modern jets.
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