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    Problem balancing during takeoff/landing and taxi

    I always seem to struggle in controlling the P51 during taxi and takeoff/landing.

    For some reason I can't steer the darn thing... I can't seem to be able to make gentle corrections. Small amounts of rudder pedal don't seem to do much and to much, all of a sudden the planes seems to start spinning. This is especially the case when I push the yoke forward to make the wheel more steerable but even than, small amounts of rudder don't seem to do much and the only thing I seem to be able to do is make the plane spin around its own axes a couple of times...

    During takeoff it's the same... If I put a lot of rudder pedal in it, that action usually doesn't seem to translate into direction change in the plane.

    One of the first missions in the campaign is takeofff and land with a 10 m/s crosswind. That's around 20 knots and my plane just goes off the runway during takeoff, no matter how much rudder pedal I put into it...

    What am I doing wrong?

    #2
    Do you have independent toe brakes mapped? Low speed manoeuvres seem very manageable using the brakes to steer.
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      #3
      Yeah I do and that seems to be the only way to somewhat control the plane during taxi but that doesn't resolve the controlling during takeoff...

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        #4
        Hello
        First when wind is crossing the runway take off ,you have to counter it by pushing the stick to the side from where comes the wind,and maintain it while taking off(same is due at landing).This point is mandatory,it is named "stick in the wind".
        Second you don't need all the power to take off with any warbird;apart if you are at MTOW(maximun take off weight).however if the runway is long enough even at MTOW you may use this way.
        Lock the tail wheel if it's able.
        Thus push the throttle slowly and the stick forward to lift the tail,now you have a better yaw control.Maintain the line straight ahead.Check out your speed upto the take off speed pointed in the manual.You will see that 3/4 power is enough.
        The trick is to avoid a brutal torque.
        And of course practice a bit is advised.
        Last word about the stick pushed right or left,this way is only done to counter the crossing wind.In not any case is due to counter the torque as i can read sometimes on the forum.
        The torque is counter acted by using trim and rudder.
        Last edited 09-15-2020, 10:59 PM.

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          #5
          Ah I think I'm to hard on the throttle from the beginning. I usually use around 60 to 70% of throttle but I put it all the way directly from stand still so that might cause the problems...

          Will do a few tests tomorrow to see if a gentle push of the throttle works better.

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            #6
            Don't go hard on the throttle. Gently advance throttle to 3000 rpm or around the top of the green on the dial. Watch your needles. After takeoff, adjust your needles until they are in the middle of the green, and you will hardly need to touch the throttle for normal flight maneuvers.
            ----------------------

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              #7
              Keep in mind pushing the stick forward doesn't make the tailwheel "more steerable" - on the contrary - the wheel get's disconnected and swivels on it's own so you loose any directional control apart from using main wheel brakes. You also won't re-engage tailwheel steering unless it's straightened to within +/- 6 degrees off the centerline.
              i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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                #8
                Are you applying 5 degree right rudder before take off, this makes things much easier.
                Oh and make sure that your tail wheel is locked.
                sigpic

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                  #9
                  Did a few takeoffs using more gentle usage of the throttle and it seems better now

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by Art-J View Post
                    Keep in mind pushing the stick forward doesn't make the tailwheel "more steerable" - on the contrary - the wheel get's disconnected and swivels on it's own so you loose any directional control apart from using main wheel brakes. You also won't re-engage tailwheel steering unless it's straightened to within +/- 6 degrees off the centerline.
                    Pull the stick all the way back to lock the tailwheel while taxiing.
                    Steer using rudder for gradual turns and differential braking for sharp turns.

                    Preset 5 to 6 degrees right trim and about the same for down elevator.
                    Use full flaps when heavily loaded. 10 to 20 degrees when empty.
                    Don't use more than 60% throttle. Release stick. Ease in the power and gently use rudder to keep going straight down the runway. Never use brakes during your takeoff run.
                    At 100 MPH, the tailwheel will come up.
                    Use gentle rudder after the tailwheel comes up to keep going straight.
                    Ease back on the stick at 140 to 150 MPH.
                    Raise landing gear first then flaps. Trim as necessary to keep the sideslip
                    bubble and climb indicator in the center and most importantly, Have Fun.
                    sigpic

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                      #11
                      if you wish i can make a video explaining techniques for taildraggers and specific to the p51.

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                        #12
                        It does NOT need stick full back for tail wheel lock, just aft of neutral (or even neutral) is enough. Pull it back a little bit just to make sure any inadvertent minute forward push doesn't unlock it.
                        ~

                        A different subject that may relate. Or maybe it's me. I find the P-51 weirdly unstable in yaw during takeoff or just after takeoff. More so than any other taildragger. If it starts slide sideways I'm doomed, more often than not.

                        Weird because I think the weatherwane effect should keep it (like any other plane) from sideways slipping the way the P-51 often does. It feels "wrong".

                        I don't know how to be sure if it's me not grasping what's happening or if it is something with the flight model.

                        The I-16, Spitfire or Bf109, if they start sideslipping I have no problem correcting it.
                        Last edited 10-18-2020, 07:57 PM.

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                          #13
                          For OP, the safest way to takeoff.

                          Make sure to have some elevator trim down (the autostart does this automatically). Less important, 5-6 degrees right rudder trim (you'll be controlling with the rudder anyway).

                          Pull the stick back all the way (I think pressing down the tail helps directional stability but full back might be unnecessary).
                          When speed hits 60-100 mph release the stick, wait until tail rises. At 110-140 mph, very carefully pull back and take off (It works at 110 or even 100, but 120-140 is safer).

                          Note, because of the trim nose down you must keep holding stick back, if stick released, it will nose down hard onto rwy again. While holding stick back, keep trimming elevator up until it stays neutral.

                          Also. You can't "think it". Only keep doing it until it's in muscle memory.
                          Last edited 10-20-2020, 05:28 PM.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by -0303- View Post
                            A different subject that may relate. Or maybe it's me. I find the P-51 weirdly unstable in yaw during takeoff or just after takeoff. More so than any other taildragger. If it starts slide sideways I'm doomed, more often than not.

                            Weird because I think the weatherwane effect should keep it (like any other plane) from sideways slipping the way the P-51 often does. It feels "wrong".

                            I don't know how to be sure if it's me not grasping what's happening or if it is something with the flight model.

                            The I-16, Spitfire or Bf109, if they start sideslipping I have no problem correcting it.
                            Long shot: when the yaw happens are you also slightly dropping a wing? Might be wing tip stall making things go fubar? Next time it happens maybe try to take note of your speed.

                            JAT

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                              #15
                              Wing is dropped, yes. But I do remember having speed. Above 100 mph (I should make a track). But it's because I have speed that this seems "wrong". The weather-wane effect, it should correct itself, unless one is deliberately trying to side-slip hard.

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                                #16
                                Maybe AoA vs speed isn't high enough and is causing the stall and then... concur - worth investigating via a track.

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                                  #17
                                  There's a nose up thing going on I think .. just now anyway. I won't discuss this anymore until I have a good track worth talking about. If so I'll start a new thread.

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                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by reece146 View Post
                                    Maybe AoA vs speed isn't high enough and is causing the stall and then... concur - worth investigating via a track.
                                    Wing will stall at critical AoA no matter the speed.
                                    sigpic

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                                      #19
                                      My Dad said you need a strong right leg on takeoff in a P-51. I cannot locate how to check the gas in the 85 gal tank behind the pilot. The gauge is not visible in any view I've tried. Also it should be noted with the 85 gal tank full the Mustang is tricky to control which is why that tank was the first one to be selected and emptied. I'm assuming the flight characteristics in DCS reflect that? I guess my questions are, is the rear tank behind the pilot full by default? and How can one view the gauge on top of the tank? thanks!

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                                        #20
                                        Are you using TrackIR or VR? With either of those you can see all the gauges if you move your head around correctly. If you are using view hot keys you will need to slew the view left/right/up/down to read the tank gauges.

                                        The weight balance due to fuel is modelled in DCS.

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