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  • gavagai
    replied
    This is just like all the flight sim games of the past. The AI is only good with aircraft that turn well in the horizontal.

    I never enjoyed the 190A-8 much in Aces High, Il-2, or here. To be successful with it you need a team of human pilots to fly with, who understand how to set up a drag instead of attempting a maneuvering battle they will never win.

    P.S. The AI 190D-9 will lose almost as quickly.

    Leave a comment:


  • LeCuvier
    replied
    rtyfgv is obviously an expert in the art of shooting the opponent when he is turning towards you into a heads-on path. And he is good at deflection shooting. I sometimes manage this as well. The Anton's tremendous fire power really helps here. My tactics with the A8:
    1. try to hit him heads-on in the initial merge. Works surprisingly often.

    2. If that fails, keep going straight-on and gain altitude. The P-51 or P-47 cannot catch up with me, I gain altitude and distance. Some enemy pilots eventually give up and turn away. Then I go towards them, still gaining altitude, and often I can gain a position that allows to successfully attack with a sufficient energy advantage. Usually I can get behind him and kill.

    3. If he keeps following me: Once I have sufficient altitude and distance, I climb steeply to convert my speed into altitude, then use rudder to end the climb, turn in the dive towards the enemy and level off gently. This way I can make a 180° turn rapidly and without much energy loss. Then I maneuver so that I get behind the enemy. This can take some turns; but since I started with an energy advantage this tends to be successful.

    4. Avoid getting into a turning fight with low energy - it's suicide.

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  • JG13~Wulf
    replied
    Did you make the Anton start at the same altitude as the enemy?
    And what was the altitude ?

    Between 2000 and 3000m, the A8 is so disavantaged. It can't do anything against any enemy.

    I made some test with AI set like this :
    Veteran
    Rookie
    Veteran
    Trained.

    They fly well but they wont help the human that would take any place in it (except if they decide to attack the enemy that engage you).

    Another thing that could be interesting is to set up nearby AAA defenses. When combat not going well, pilot can either decide to try to continue or run away for cover. There were a lot of AAA everywhere in France.

    Finally, but I don't think it's possible in DCS. I did this in IL2 1946. I select for some plane which group to target in priority. So I'm able to create a battle with more plane that do not end up in a 20 vs 4 + 16. The cool think is that in IL2 they do their best to get the selected enemy group but if they another enemy attack, they defend themselves. And when the particular enemy group is downed, they go to another one.

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  • Reflected
    replied
    Originally posted by cellinsky View Post
    Same here.

    I bought the Anton Campagne and wanted to up my skills before playing it in a realistic manner. Im aware this is not IL2, but having no chance at all against the AI is not realistic either. My flight gets butchered in no time without any losses to the other side no matter wich enemy planes. If I do the same mission in a Jug, I got shot down by the Antons regularly. Seems like the AI has always the perfect edge and perfect situational awarness. Hope this can be improoved along with the new damage-model. Cant imagine how hard it is for a Campagne creator to get the balance right.

    Still lots of fun to learn and fly this classics.
    It wasn't easy to create balance in the campaign, and I didn't always want to. After all, flying in the Luftwaffe in 1944 was a game of survival. But I made sure most AI, especially Spits are set to rookie, and that there's always a friendly force in the vicinity to help, etc...and not all missions are dogfights, there are ground attacks and several other tasks where the FW-190 is not at disadvantage.

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  • cellinsky
    replied
    Originally posted by unlikely_spider View Post
    Man, I'm glad it's not just me as well. I'm brushing up on my Anton familiarity in anticipation of the upcoming campaign. So I jump into some instant action scenarios against AI, and holy crap.

    They get my wingman in about 10 or 15 seconds, then are unshakable on my tail shortly thereafter. The only ones I seem to have a chance against are the Thunderbolts, and that is really only if I happen to get a few hits in one of them at the beginning when in the head to head merge.
    Same here.

    I bought the Anton Campagne and wanted to up my skills before playing it in a realistic manner. Im aware this is not IL2, but having no chance at all against the AI is not realistic either. My flight gets butchered in no time without any losses to the other side no matter wich enemy planes. If I do the same mission in a Jug, I got shot down by the Antons regularly. Seems like the AI has always the perfect edge and perfect situational awarness. Hope this can be improoved along with the new damage-model. Cant imagine how hard it is for a Campagne creator to get the balance right.

    Still lots of fun to learn and fly this classics.

    Leave a comment:


  • unlikely_spider
    replied
    Man, I'm glad it's not just me as well. I'm brushing up on my Anton familiarity in anticipation of the upcoming campaign. So I jump into some instant action scenarios against AI, and holy crap.

    They get my wingman in about 10 or 15 seconds, then are unshakable on my tail shortly thereafter. The only ones I seem to have a chance against are the Thunderbolts, and that is really only if I happen to get a few hits in one of them at the beginning when in the head to head merge.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lynnux
    replied
    Originally posted by amazingme View Post
    You should make a difference between IAS and TAS.

    No. Because the pilots just saw the speed on their instruments which shows IAS.
    And the statement "Especial Bf 109 which could not pull out of high speed dive" is simply wrong, regardless of IAS or TAS. And "high stick forces" does not mean that the control surfaces have no effect anymore like e.g. the elevator of the P-38 at a certain speed.



    So in other words: If you have a flight sim in which a BF109 can't pull out of a high speed dive using the stick because the controls freeze while a P-38F can pull out over the whole speed range without using rudder then you know it's unrealistic. Simple as that.
    Last edited 09-19-2020, 01:57 PM.

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  • amazingme
    replied
    Originally posted by Lynnux View Post
    Don't know where this myth is coming from. Finnish pilots were flying escort for their bombers diving with high speed (700+ km/h) and pulling up again.

    Dangerous was to pull too many G at high speed because the tailplane could break off. But anyways this is a FW-190 thread...


    Btw. the official top speed of the 109 was 750 km/h. The K model could already almost fly this speed when going level. Was it just able to fly straight at top speed because the stick forces were oh so high ?
    You should make a difference between IAS and TAS. The 109 suffered from very high stick forces @ speeds over 720 km/h IAS. Otherwise, the controls were very responsive, even at low speeds due to the automatic slats.

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  • Lynnux
    replied
    Originally posted by grafspee View Post
    Especial Bf 109 which could not pull out of high speed dive Large stick forces at high IAS

    Don't know where this myth is coming from. Finnish pilots were flying escort for their bombers diving with high speed (700+ km/h) and pulling up again.

    Dangerous was to pull too many G at high speed because the tailplane could break off. But anyways this is a FW-190 thread...


    Btw. the official top speed of the 109 was 750 km/h. The K model could already almost fly this speed when going level. Was it just able to fly straight at top speed because the stick forces were oh so high ?
    Last edited 09-19-2020, 12:45 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • rtyfgv
    replied
    Originally posted by amazingme View Post
    I can kill any AI from a bicycle.. try killing MAD in P51 for example..
    Good for you, make a video with that. But the subject of the thread is clear. May be you have to open a new thread with a subject of your concern
    Last edited 09-14-2020, 11:56 AM.

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  • amazingme
    replied
    Originally posted by rtyfgv View Post
    If defeating a P-51D AI(Ace) on an Anton is still an issue, here I there is a video.
    Conditions are on the description

    I can kill any AI from a bicycle.. try killing MAD in P51 for example..

    Sent from my Redmi 5 using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:


  • rtyfgv
    replied
    If defeating a P-51D AI(Ace) on an Anton is still an issue, I made this is a video.
    Conditions are on the description

    Last edited 09-22-2020, 04:24 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • amazingme
    replied
    Originally posted by grafspee View Post
    Especial Bf 109 which could not pull out of high speed dive Large stick forces at high IAS
    250-300km/h IAS is not a high speed..

    Sent from my Redmi 5 using Tapatalk

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  • Captain_Deveraux
    replied
    against the mustang against the spit

    I have recognized that I can take on mustangs, if they're not too bright: The A8 is a monstrous scissor-deamon, so you'll let the mustang take on you (and survive it's first attack), then you scissor untill it has to break off, and then you take it. That doesn't work against the spit though, it will tear through you every time. I think you have to fly the A8 against the spit with a lot of energy conserving... I don't know how that should work in the A8 though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cintra
    replied
    Do you guys mean that ED has underpowered the A8 or is th A8 just an underpowered plane in real life?

    Leave a comment:


  • MrExplosion
    replied
    Originally posted by grafspee View Post
    But Anton struggle a lot, this is saying something important about Fw190 A8.

    Yes it quite underpowered. Try to make a somewhat fast lvl turn at somewhat high altitude...

    Leave a comment:


  • grafspee
    replied
    When i was flying Anton in aerobatics server i found that it is extremely hard to make loop in this plane, Fw190 D9 easy, spit p-51 bf109 you can do loop after loop. But Anton struggle a lot, this is saying something important about Fw190 A8.

    Leave a comment:


  • Reflected
    replied
    Yes, I was testing the playability flying the Anton in SP, sorry if I wasn’t clear.

    Leave a comment:


  • grafspee
    replied
    Originally posted by MrExplosion View Post
    "The Spitfire LF Mk.IX and the Fw 190 A-8 make excellent counterparts for DCS World."

    Piloted by good pilots i would say yes, as AI no.

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  • MrExplosion
    replied
    Originally posted by Reflected View Post
    That was my first try, but 12 ace Antons vs 12 rookie Spits (or Mustangs) ends in a massacre, and I'm obliterated each time within a minute.
    "The Spitfire LF Mk.IX and the Fw 190 A-8 make excellent counterparts for DCS World."

    Leave a comment:

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