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    Stick Pull Limitation

    Why there is limitation on pulling stick, When i pull my joystick stick on BF-109 in game, it never pulls stick fully backward on high speed where i want. Is there any way to disable this feature so there is no limitation on pulling stick backward?
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    #2
    Originally posted by AliPG View Post
    Why there is limitation on pulling stick, When i pull my joystick stick on BF-109 in game, it never pulls stick fully backward on high speed where i want. Is there any way to disable this feature so there is no limitation on pulling stick backward?
    It's because of the way DCS is modelling the stick forces. Bf 109 was well known for this behaviour at high speeds, stick forces grown so much that pilot can't pull or push stick fully back or front. You have to use trim to be able to recover from high-speed dive for example.

    Stick forces in DCS 109 are modelled after soviet test trials with G model 109 but some people (like me) believe that current implementation is exaggerated at lower speeds. Most of the test repots mention high stick forces after +550km/h.

    https://forums.eagle.ru/forum/englis...ver-forces-etc
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      #3
      I've found that it's almost impossible to dogfight like I used to (Since the 109 was released) since they changed the stick forces. Plane seems noticeably sluggish in flat turns even at 300-400kmh .

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        #4
        I agree, stick forces seem exaggerated. They're not present on any other warbird but the 109. Even at 3-400 kph It's really hard to make the pane move. As if I was flying a Hornet with really bad flybywire.

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          #5
          Originally posted by Reflected View Post
          I agree, stick forces seem exaggerated. They're not present on any other warbird but the 109. Even at 3-400 kph It's really hard to make the pane move. As if I was flying a Hornet with really bad flybywire.
          I agree, even at 300kph it is hard to keep up with unloaded stick in p-47 or p-51, my main issue is the extreme lag in stick movement, max deflection is not a big deal it can be fixed with trim.
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            #6
            It feels unrealistic, These guys must introduce some option so we are able to bypass this artificial limiter.
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              #7
              Rather change it to something more realistic instead of bypassing it altogether, i.e. the controls stiffening should only start happening after exceeding 300MPH or thereabouts.
              The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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                #8
                I wish they remove this limitation which is more natural similar to other ww2 planes, it feels so awkward and not satisfying. Its artifical limiter which should not exist in this level of simulation. I wish developers get on this case. I guess people will agree with me if we can trade artificial limiter with wing break. which is more natural to be exist in DCS and real life.
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by AliPG View Post
                  I wish they remove this limitation which is more natural similar to other ww2 planes, it feels so awkward and not satisfying. Its artifical limiter which should not exist in this level of simulation. I wish developers get on this case. I guess people will agree with me if we can trade artificial limiter with wing break. which is more natural to be exist in DCS and real life.
                  Problem is that in bf-109 at high speeds stick forces were so large that you cant brake wing by pulling stick. Compare to P-51 where stick forces are relatively light, pilot was able make abrupt pull ending up with damage to airframe, p-51 manual mention it in dive section.
                  most ppl think that used stick forces are too strong especially at lower speeds. At 300kph you can see that stick movement is sluggish.
                  Here you can see stick forces in FW190 which are almost 0 up to very high speed.
                  Click image for larger version  Name:	0UX49jo.jpg Views:	1 Size:	242.2 KB ID:	7139931
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                    #10
                    should not exist in this level of simulation
                    You're wrong. Biffers were known for needing excessive control forces at high airspeeds and that should definitely exist in DCS as well. As to whether the modelling is correct and realistic as is, is however debatable - and I, for one, don't think it is.
                    The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by msalama View Post

                      You're wrong. Biffers were known for needing excessive control forces at high airspeeds and that should definitely exist in DCS as well. As to whether the modelling is correct and realistic as is, is however debatable - and I, for one, don't think it is.
                      How about just give us special option to disable this feature cause out of character you can pull the stick in real life with your joystick but in character in game you are not pulling the stick which making it virtual and artificial. Do you think there must be option on controls like stick limitation override in su27 and mig29. I'm just saying it will add more user experiences like takeoff assistance which is already there etc.
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                        #12
                        The thing is when you could pull all the way at every speed it meant people were breaking wings all the time, and the complaint was "the 109 breaks wings so easily". You complain now about the stick forces, but before it was about broken wings, which is better to have?

                        And, to make me clear, I liked the system like it was before, could fully enjoy it because of my stick extension, and never broke a single wing the whole time it was like that . But it's fine like it is now and you can perfectly fly the thing.

                        S!
                        "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice
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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Ala13_ManOWar View Post
                          The thing is when you could pull all the way at every speed it meant people were breaking wings all the time, and the complaint was "the 109 breaks wings so easily". You complain now about the stick forces, but before it was about broken wings, which is better to have?

                          And, to make me clear, I liked the system like it was before, could fully enjoy it because of my stick extension, and never broke a single wing the whole time it was like that . But it's fine like it is now and you can perfectly fly the thing.

                          S!
                          Do you know wing break exist for all plane in DCS? In the end it is related to pilot skills.
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                            #14
                            Not quite. In the end it's more related to stick forces the real plane had and which simulators try to emulate in one way or the other. While some planes with low longitudinal stability had low stick forces and indeed allowed the pilot to overload the structure (Spitfire being famous example with its ~5 lbsF per g gradient in pitch channel), the others did not. Removing stick force limitation, even if optional, would allow virtual pilot to do things the real pilots and planes couldn't.

                            One can argue that our DCS "pilot" sitting in the 109 cockpit might not be strong enough, but removing the limit is only going to another extreme and makes things even less realistic.
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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Art-J View Post
                              One can argue that our DCS "pilot" sitting in the 109 cockpit might not be strong enough, but removing the limit is only going to another extreme and makes things even less realistic.
                              Agree, removing it, is no solution at all.

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                                #16
                                Yeah, well, tell that to those complaining about the constant broken wings .

                                S!
                                "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice
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                                  #17
                                  Well its all about everyone's personal opinions and taste meanwhile every ww2 plane in dcs break wings so.
                                  All i purposing is to give us this feature back or give us option in special options in settings to bypass this limiter similar to assistance takeoff kind of option and people who don't like virtual limiter can turn this thing off. Honestly it feels sluggish, unreal and unsatisfying etc stuff
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                                    #18
                                    I've owned the 109 since it was first released, and I've never managed to break a wing off from over-G. I did immediately notice the stick pull when I was flying and immediately felt like the plane wasn't as aerobatic as I had remembered as originally felt like it was the easiest out of the 3 luft planes to dogfight with.

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                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by BlitzPuppet View Post
                                      I've owned the 109 since it was first released, and I've never managed to break a wing off from over-G. I did immediately notice the stick pull when I was flying and immediately felt like the plane wasn't as aerobatic as I had remembered as originally felt like it was the easiest out of the 3 luft planes to dogfight with.
                                      Indeed i agree with that, I don't know why people like artificial limiter cause it is easy meanwhile it is also causing problem when we do boom and zooming with 109 it is not going to pull high G at high speed which really sucks.
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                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by BlitzPuppet View Post
                                        I've owned the 109 since it was first released, and I've never managed to break a wing off from over-G. I did immediately notice the stick pull when I was flying and immediately felt like the plane wasn't as aerobatic as I had remembered as originally felt like it was the easiest out of the 3 luft planes to dogfight with.
                                        When it was in EA, there was not force limiter like we have it now. It was possible to break off one or both wings, if you forced it. Unfortunately I didn't record any videos about this.
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