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    Originally posted by rossmum View Post
    Not quite what I was getting at - people ask for the 27T now and then because of the "IRST stealth" meme. In reality (well, in DCS too) they're not really intended for that and unless your target is totally unaware, which a Jester-crewed F-14 won't be, they're easily defeated. At that point you're sacrificing one or both of your R-27Rs for them, and still have four empty pylons for short-range IR missiles.

    Life would be a lot easier if the 29 could use the R-60 in DCS, but unfortunately I don't see that happening any time soon. I guess one possible solution is just to make S&D a lone all-aspect mission, even while the rest of the rotation is rear only? That might confuse people who aren't aware of what a briefing is, though

    As for R-27R vs F-5 - it can be defeated but I've had reasonably good results with it. Failing that you can always gun him. Gunning a Tomcat is a much riskier proposition, though.
    Ehh i've gunned them both. The tomcat is easier, it's a much bigger target. Yeah you can dominate the F-5 with power but man is it a slippery tiny bugger.Makes snap shooting it in a knife fight more tricky then you might think.

    Is the R60m really much better then the R60? In my experience with both in the 21 i find the M only marginally better at defeating flares, and thats really the only difference I can tell between the 2. They are both all aspect. I know i've killed players head on with the R60.
    Last edited by CrazyGman; 10-19-2020, 08:47 PM.

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      Originally posted by CrazyGman View Post
      They are both all aspect. I know i've killed players head on with the R60.
      No longer true, at least not since the most recent Fishbed rework. You can get tone on an afterburning F-5 that is approaching you head-on, but even assuming you launch the missile at the earliest possible moment it won't connect. This is why Alpen reinstated the R-60 in his missions but deliberately left out the R-60M, which does retain limited all-aspect capability. This goes in line with mission rules on CW - no all-aspect IR missiles are allowed.
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        Originally posted by _Firefly View Post
        No longer true, at least not since the most recent Fishbed rework. You can get tone on an afterburning F-5 that is approaching you head-on, but even assuming you launch the missile at the earliest possible moment it won't connect. This is why Alpen reinstated the R-60 in his missions but deliberately left out the R-60M, which does retain limited all-aspect capability. This goes in line with mission rules on CW - no all-aspect IR missiles are allowed.
        Sure you can. Cut your speed as you approach head on and it will connect. R60m behaves the same, too much speed and it will miss head on.

        Also if no all aspect then why do tomcats get the Aim-9L? It's definetly all aspect. I got killed head on with it yesterday, and I just tested it myself head on flying the tomcat
        Last edited by CrazyGman; 10-19-2020, 11:50 PM.

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          Yeah Aim 9L is all aspect and the most deadly missile in current scenario (Argentinians can confirm). I think it should be removed.
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            Originally posted by CrazyGman View Post
            Ehh i've gunned them both. The tomcat is easier, it's a much bigger target. Yeah you can dominate the F-5 with power but man is it a slippery tiny bugger.Makes snap shooting it in a knife fight more tricky then you might think.

            Is the R60m really much better then the R60? In my experience with both in the 21 i find the M only marginally better at defeating flares, and thats really the only difference I can tell between the 2. They are both all aspect. I know i've killed players head on with the R60.
            The problem is that if you miss the 14, it will dominate you with both power and sustained turn performance. I would rather gunfight an F-5 any day of the week, they're relatively easy prey and once you figure out the ballistics on the GSh-23 it's not too bad. At best they can roll and jink around, so just hold your shot until they get tired of it or begin a sustained turn. Less experienced F-5 pilots are pretty easily conned into trying to keep up with a radius fight, which won't end well for them.

            R-60 should no longer be able to turn enough to hit a head-on target unless they voluntarily fly into it. It had marginal all-aspect capability to begin with, now it should have none. I've yet to see one track a closing target since the patch.
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              Was a good run with the rear aspect missiles..
              What do you all say about heading back to all aspect?
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                Originally posted by NELLUS View Post
                Was a good run with the rear aspect missiles..
                What do you all say about heading back to all aspect?
                I'm in favour of keeping it this way.
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                  Originally posted by Alpenwolf View Post

                  I'm in favour of keeping it this way.
                  It would be easier for the 3rd Gen planes to shoot down the 4 Gen, just to even out the playfield a bit. Pretty hard to get on to a 4 Gen without a Gci.
                  But I understand that you are giving the Mig15/19's and F86 a better chance of survival this way with rear aspect only. Would be unfair to leave them behind.
                  Last edited by NELLUS; 10-21-2020, 11:26 AM.
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