Should I get a VR set and if so which one ?

[jfri]

I am considering getting into VR mainly for flight simming not only DCS and preferable also other games. Otherwise it is not worth the cost. But first I need to take some things into consideration.

 

Can my computer handle it ?

My system is CPU Haswell 4770K @4.5 GHz RAM 16 Gb 2200 MHz Videocard NVIDIA 2070 Super SSD drives and a 27" 2560*1440 screen also 5 Ghz router and 75-150 GBps download

 

What are the disadvantages compared to 2D screen ? The advantage of realism throught the 3D display must outweight the disadvantages. And considering the high cost no significant or glaring disadvantages can be accepted.

 

If I would get one I have came to two main alternatives.

 

1) Occulus Quest II with a wireless setup (My video card does not have a USB C port). Has anyone tried this ? Does it work well ? The advantage I see here that I would have both stand alone and no cable thus more flexible. Also less expensive.

 

2) HP Reverb G2 VR Headset. Better resolution and designed for PC connection which might make it work better

 

Regarding the question IF to buy an alternative would be to wait for something better. But my concern here is the future headset propably is going to have higher resolution and thus higher system requirements which might be an issue

 

 

 

[DutchJackal]

Once you go VR, you will never want to go back to 2D. Unless you get motion sickness from VR that is...

Whether or not your PC can handle it, I'm running a Haswell i5 4670 @ 3,8 Ghz, GTX 1070 and SSD (not M.2) and I'm getting around 30FPS on a Oculus Rift CV1.

It all depends on the settings in DCS and whether your are willing to have lesser graphics for better FPS.

 

The fact that the Quest II requires a Facebook account is an absolute NO-GO for me but that is my personal opinion. Just make sure you google for this because I see reports of people have issues with Facebook after setting up their Quest II.

The Reverb has a much better resolution so you can actually read the dials in the cockpit without having to bend over... The Reverb also comes with a 6m cable so you can also play games in your living room with it.

 

[ricktoberfest]

If it’s mainly for flight sims get the reverb. I have a rift S and while it’s an ok product, oculus support for it has been horrible. All the updates are for the quest. I wouldn’t use a quest for flight simming right now. They might figure out the link thing later but for now it’s just not as good as a regular headset.

 

You should be able to use the reverb, but as with all VR, your FPS will be lower and graphics settings will have to be lower too.

 

I have a 3570k at 4.5Ghz with a Vega 64 and can get it to 45 FPS single player or 30ish multiplayer. I don’t use the ASW as i can’t stand what it does to the graphics.

 

Recently I went back to my monitor just to check it out again. Everything was so clear, and FPS was above 120 in single player, but it’s just not the same anymore and I’ll take the vr issues just for that feeling of actually being in the cockpit.

[jfri]

I don’t use the ASW as i can’t stand what it does to the graphics.

Recently I went back to my monitor just to check it out again. Everything was so clear, and FPS was above 120 in single player, but it’s just not the same anymore and I’ll take the vr issues just for that feeling of actually being in the cockpit.

 

What is ASW ?

 

 

[jfri]

 

The fact that the Quest II requires a Facebook account is an absolute NO-GO for me but that is my personal opinion. Just make sure you google for this because I see reports of people have issues with Facebook after setting up their Quest II.

The Reverb has a much better resolution so you can actually read the dials in the cockpit without having to bend over... The Reverb also comes with a 6m cable so you can also play games in your living room with it.

 

I do have an facebook account but never uses it. Read that some users had their account closed and could not use their Quest anymore. That of course is a NO-GO. But just having an account should not be a problem.

 

 

[ricktoberfest]

 

What is ASW ?

 

 

I don’t remember what it stands for

Asynchronus space warp or something like that

 

It’s supposed to make 40fps feel like 80 or 45 like 90 by interjecting frames in between the actual frames but it makes things jumpy in my case. Like the interjected frames aren’t quite right when things are moving quickly across the screen.

 

I’d rather just have the regular 40

[lobo]

In my experience with DCS in CV1 and Rift S, I choose to use ASW and get stable 40 FPS, as opposed to not using it and getting fluctuating higher FPS. ASW is a great VR feature imo.

[speed-of-heat]

With your spec of hardware, I would suggest go with a lower resolution headset, your 2070 is marginal, as is my 1080ti, but your processor will struggle to drive the Reverb G2 at full resolution. That said you likely could drive it at half resolution... And then when you later upgrade your cpu and gpu you will get a massive resolution uplift

[Gunnars Driver]

With your spec of hardware, I would suggest go with a lower resolution headset, your 2070 is marginal, as is my 1080ti, but your processor will struggle to drive the Reverb G2 at full resolution. That said you likely could drive it at half resolution... And then when you later upgrade your cpu and gpu you will get a massive resolution uplift

 

Yes, I agree.

 

The 4770K should overclock quite well. With the right CPU-cooling/chassies cooling it should be able to reach about 5ghz, and if it does it should be more or less as good as any new CPU. I went from a 4.8ghz overclocked 3770K to a 9900KS one year ago and there wasnt that much win (for DCS spefifically).

As I see it, with intel CPU the stessing spikes in DCS tend to reach 100% on the core doing the DCS thread if the CPU clock is ”only” 4.5-4,6ghz, and when going above this freq, say 4.8 or more moste of the CPU spikes will be within the CPU calculation power. (Not talking about the worst online servers).

 

The other thing (but actually first thing to check) is to make sure the computer is properly setup for gaming. This means, the BIOS settings allow the CPU to stay at the overclocked/turbo frequency during the whole gaming session and not to clock down after a minute or two. Also, it should run the turbo/overclocked freq on all cores. Having a little weaker CPU I think a good thing could be to disable hyperthreading. This will couse lower performance for some applications, due to going from 8 threads to 4, but for DCS this probably increases the performance of the CPU core driving the dvs main thread.

Also, checking that the RAM memory actually runs at the clock speeds it is marked(commom that they run on the default DDR speed(could be 1666 instead of 2333 etc).

 

The Reverb (G1) has a very sharp picture and using a lower resolution isnt as bad idea. The G2 probably will be at least as sharp as G1 so...

 

[Gunnars Driver]

In my experience with DCS in CV1 and Rift S, I choose to use ASW and get stable 40 FPS, as opposed to not using it and getting fluctuating higher FPS. ASW is a great VR feature imo.

 

Thats my experience as well. If not using ASW you have stutter which is much worse in my eyes than the ghosting ASW can produce. This is a question about personal reference, so OP have to find hes own solution.

For the HP Reverb(and probably all WMR headsets), it do not use ASW but a similar technology, motionreprojection. The difference is that its much better not to produce ghosting. In many cases I dont notice the difference between motionreprojection on or of when it comes to the bad things, but it takes the stutter away.

 

The OP GPU is probably to weak to be able to reach 90fps in any case so that isnt really a possible way. ASW/motionreprojection is needed to get out of the stutter when the frames per second is lower than the headset framrate, or accept the stutter if OP finds ASW/motionreprojection unacceptable.

[jfri]

With your spec of hardware, I would suggest go with a lower resolution headset, your 2070 is marginal, as is my 1080ti, but your processor will struggle to drive the Reverb G2 at full resolution. That said you likely could drive it at half resolution... And then when you later upgrade your cpu and gpu you will get a massive resolution uplift

 

Not according to information I have seen about the Reverb G2. There was a list issued over GPU that would need to use lower resolution and my 2070 Super (not just 2070)

was above this.

There is no budget for me to both get a VR set and also make other upgrades and certainly not both the CPU and the GPU, i.e getting a completely new computer.

[jfri]

 

Yes, I agree.

 

The 4770K should overclock quite well. With the right CPU-cooling/chassies cooling it should be able to reach about 5ghz, and if it does it should be more or less as good as any new CPU. I went from a 4.8ghz overclocked 3770K to a 9900KS one year ago and there wasnt that much win (for DCS spefifically).

As I see it, with intel CPU the stessing spikes in DCS tend to reach 100% on the core doing the DCS thread if the CPU clock is ”only” 4.5-4,6ghz, and when going above this freq, say 4.8 or more moste of the CPU spikes will be within the CPU calculation power. (Not talking about the worst online servers).

 

The other thing (but actually first thing to check) is to make sure the computer is properly setup for gaming. This means, the BIOS settings allow the CPU to stay at the overclocked/turbo frequency during the whole gaming session and not to clock down after a minute or two. Also, it should run the turbo/overclocked freq on all cores. Having a little weaker CPU I think a good thing could be to disable hyperthreading. This will couse lower performance for some applications, due to going from 8 threads to 4, but for DCS this probably increases the performance of the CPU core driving the dvs main thread.

Also, checking that the RAM memory actually runs at the clock speeds it is marked(commom that they run on the default DDR speed(could be 1666 instead of 2333 etc).

 

The Reverb (G1) has a very sharp picture and using a lower resolution isnt as bad idea. The G2 probably will be at least as sharp as G1 so...

 

When I upgraded my RAM from 8 gb to 16 Gb it was not possible to both keep my OC and run the RAM at listed frequency i.e 2400 Mhz. I spent a lot of time in the Flight1 hardware support forum and got extensive help to make the best of the situation. We ended up keeping 4.5 Ghz and 2200 MHz on the RAM. One thing I was advised about was that my H110 water cooler is aging.

Shouldn't the G2 be sharper than G1 if it has higher resolution ?

[Gunnars Driver]

 

Not according to information I have seen about the Reverb G2. There was a list issued over GPU that would need to use lower resolution and my 2070 Super (not just 2070)

was above this.

There is no budget for me to both get a VR set and also make other upgrades and certainly not both the CPU and the GPU, i.e getting a completely new computer.

 

Speed-of-heat is sort of right. DCS is harder on hardware than most other VR games. The recommended hardware, if you are on the margin you will have either very low settings or a slide show.

 

You can use your hardware, you should make an effort to OC the CPU. I had my old CPU(3770K) at 4.5ghz for a couple of years and was happy with it before getting VR, and all other games run fine but DCS needed more CPU speed. I had the oculus rift since the release. I did increase the overclock and found it working progressively better the higher the OC was and ended up at 4.8ghz as the normal setting. Even higher clock was better, but to have it run safe for the wife when I was away at work I stayed at that value.

You also should make sure the settings keep the cpu at the set clock during the complete gaming period. Default setting for turbo mode is turbo clock for a while, then clock down and it then clock up for a while etc. DCS need that clock speed all the time, if it clocks down to 4ghz or so you will have stutter.

You can test this at the same time as you stress test the overclock of your computer. HWinfo64 of something similar can show you the clock speed of all cpu cores dureing a stress test, and if you use a temperature software you can keep an eye on the temps as well.

Your watercooler should be fine, maybe new good paste on the CPU and make sure the coller is free from dust etc.

[Gunnars Driver]

 

When I upgraded my RAM from 8 gb to 16 Gb it was not possible to both keep my OC and run the RAM at listed frequency i.e 2400 Mhz. I spent a lot of time in the Flight1 hardware support forum and got extensive help to make the best of the situation. We ended up keeping 4.5 Ghz and 2200 MHz on the RAM.

Shouldn't the G2 be sharper than G1 if it has higher resolution ?

 

High cpu clock speed is much more important then high RAM speed in DCS. High ram speed does make a difference but marginal compared to the cpu clock.

Also, you would like to have the high clock freq on all cores. And you might be helped by disabling hyperthreading, thus making each physical cpu core a bit more powerfull. Now you now what to hunt during settings :-)

 

Reverb G1 and G2 will have the same resolution, 2160’2160 for each eye( if they didnt change the specs for G2 very revently).

Main difference should be better sharpnes in the lenses outside middle focus on the G2. G1 is very sharp in the middle but a bit blurry on other spaces.

Also more cameras for the inside out tracking(which is a problem/issue with G1 for me at least).

 

I would recommend tuning of current hardware and getting the reverb G2. I would say the 2070 super can do it, but probably nbot with the highest settings, and also the cpu might be the limit anyhow if you not tune it.

 

My neighbour have a low end rig just fullfilling the specs for VR and DCS has to be set at very low graphic settings and also its more or less a slide show, at least when we do multiplayer with lot of assets. This with a oculus rift.

 

 

[Oldahpilot]

There are so many variables to consider here.

 

I run DCS in VR with a fairly modest system similar to yours, i7 4790, 16gb ddr3, rx570 OC.

I'm using the rift S, and have most settings in the sim fairly low to achieve modest frame rates. I fly the A10c, AV8B, and helicopters, so normally near the ground where lack of textures and shadows are noticed.

There's no doubt that being "in" the aircraft in VR is a step change up from looking at an image of the cockpit on a monitor, but is the loss of graphic details and smooth frame rates worth it? I keep in mind that as DCS continues to react to the constant calls on these forums and elsewhere to upgrade the game graphics and complexity of modules and maps, that my old system will rapidly fall below the minimum threshold for VR enjoyment.

I think the G2 is the way forward for DCS, but with that resolution, a much beefier PC will be required! I'm waiting until the new year or beyond to upgrade, let the dust settle on the new gpu availability and prices.

in my opinion, to get the most from this next generation of VR hmds in DCS, you'll need to think about an expensive new PC, otherwise it could be a frustrating experience on low graphic settings to get minimum frame rate performance.

[Gunnars Driver]

I have the Reverb since one year and did run it with a 2080ti until yesterday(now 3090 :-) )

 

The hardware performance needed shouldnt differ between G1 and G2(same resolution) and my 2080ti could easily handle the Reverb G1, I use 150% supersampling.

 

I think the 2070 super is ranked as about 25-30% lower performance than my 2080ti, so it isnt a very weak gpu.

Just keep the settings appropriate, not to much supersampling, shadows flat etc and the known fps killer settings low or off and it will be fine.

Its also possible to set the Reverb frequency to 60hz, which gives the possibility to use 30 fps as a target with motionreprojection to 60fps. That would allow for even lower hardware performance if needed.

 

The main thing for OP is taking advantage of the CPU Possibility to overclock and make it shine to the level that it mostly isnt the limit for performance. If we play with the thought that he reaches 5ghz or close to it, it will perform DCS-wise about as good as any cpu. Then there wouldnt be any big win even if buying a new CPU(+ mobo, ram etc). I know overclocking isnt so easy to get a good grip asap, but youtube should be a very good help, 4770K was commonly used in OC and the actual motherboard settings might be covered in many videos

[jfri]

 

The main thing for OP is taking advantage of the CPU Possibility to overclock and make it shine to the level that it mostly isnt the limit for performance. If we play with the thought that he reaches 5ghz or close to it, it will perform DCS-wise about as good as any cpu. Then there wouldnt be any big win even if buying a new CPU(+ mobo, ram etc). I know overclocking isnt so easy to get a good grip asap, but youtube should be a very good help, 4770K was commonly used in OC and the actual motherboard settings might be covered in many videos

 

I already have the CPU OC as much as I can and even when the cooler was new I only reached 4.5 GHz. There is no way I could get 5 GHz with my current system. I have hyper threading disabled

 

 

[jfri]

There are so many variables to consider here.

 

I run DCS in VR with a fairly modest system similar to yours, i7 4790, 16gb ddr3, rx570 OC.

I'm using the rift S, and have most settings in the sim fairly low to achieve modest frame rates. I fly the A10c, AV8B, and helicopters, so normally near the ground where lack of textures and shadows are noticed.

There's no doubt that being "in" the aircraft in VR is a step change up from looking at an image of the cockpit on a monitor, but is the loss of graphic details and smooth frame rates worth it? I keep in mind that as DCS continues to react to the constant calls on these forums and elsewhere to upgrade the game graphics and complexity of modules and maps, that my old system will rapidly fall below the minimum threshold for VR enjoyment.

I think the G2 is the way forward for DCS, but with that resolution, a much beefier PC will be required! I'm waiting until the new year or beyond to upgrade, let the dust settle on the new gpu availability and prices.

in my opinion, to get the most from this next generation of VR hmds in DCS, you'll need to think about an expensive new PC, otherwise it could be a frustrating experience on low graphic settings to get minimum frame rate performance.

 

There seem to be two main factors

 

1) The resolution of the VR unit. And the G2 can use half resolution. Is that worse than the Rift S. How much does lower resolution affect the display ? I have seen YT videos comparing it but does that give an honest picture of how it going to be ? For me I got the impression that low resolution is very bad. But then why do people use for example the Rift S ?

 

2) Settings in the sim (game). How much lowering this affect the experience differs from sim to sim. I think it would affect more in P3D and MSFS and XP11 than in DCS

 

 

[speed-of-heat]

Re g2 and half res, nobody knows for sure because nobody outside of the reviewers has one...

[Gunnars Driver]

 

There seem to be two main factors

 

1) The resolution of the VR unit. And the G2 can use half resolution. Is that worse than the Rift S. How much does lower resolution affect the display ? I have seen YT videos comparing it but does that give an honest picture of how it going to be ? For me I got the impression that low resolution is very bad. But then why do people use for example the Rift S ?

 

2) Settings in the sim (game). How much lowering this affect the experience differs from sim to sim. I think it would affect more in P3D and MSFS and XP11 than in DCS

 

 

1) as G1 and G2 have the same resolution its possible to test how it will look in the G2 when it comes to ’undersampling’ (havent done it).

you probably wont need to undersample with a 2070 super, but you might have to stick with supersampling at 100% ( = the reverb resolution of 2160*2160). Also you might need to lower the settings for threes and grass.

 

Supersampling increases the sharpnes when going above the panels physical resolution, higher supersampling/resulotion gives a sharper picture. I do 150% with the reverb, 200% was even sharper but it made a too big impact in FPS.

The same function should be for undersampling, the sharpness would progressively decrease when increasing undersampling.

A qualified guess is that you can stay att 100% with the reverb G2 for your system.

some settings affect the CPU more and some the GPU more.

 

For your 4.5 Ghz max clock, its possible to use and you may need to lower some settings further or have some stutter you otherwise hadnt had. Just make sure the CPU stays at 4.5ghz during the whole gaming without clocking down.

Probably already covered as you have OC:d already. As from what I did read about not possible to both upgrade and get VR, I would go for VR with the current system tuned as good as it can get and then take the

 

2) FS2020 we dont know about VR yet but it also currently more or less use one cpu thread for the main core= easy to get cpu bound.

theres lot of settings so you should be able to loser these to get a smooth ride. I expect Microsoft to fix the single core thread issue thus take advantage of cpus with multiple cores, but when this will happen is not clear. Both FS2020 and DCS will need quite low settings. Still, the immersion in VR is good.

DCS developer works on a multiple cpu solution but it seems to be one year or more away.

 

DCS has good levels in the settings and the main problem isnt to find lower settings but that the users usually set to high settings.

 

 

 

 

[metalnwood]

If it was me, I would go for the G2 and run it at half resolution mode until you have more horsepower to run it at full.

 

You probably already saw this through the lens comparison and while it doesnt really show you what it is like it gives you an idea relatively. Hard to tell through a camera but backed up with him saying it looks better through the lens I am betting it is. The rift S doesnt look as bad looking through as the camera so the camera is making it look worse, that also means thae G2 at half res will also look better... With a baked in upgrade when you can take advantage of it.

 

 

The other reason is that proper IPD adjustment is important if you need it. You may never know if you need it until you have a headset that has it. The rift S is not usable for me for very long because of the fixed IPD.

 

The quest is adjustable with the lenses but once again, if you dont fall within it's adjustment zone it wont be ideal and you can lose some FOV depending where your IPD lies.

 

As far as oculus, I owned three of their headsets but wont give them anymore $$ at all. What doesnt work for me may work for you though :)

 

[Gunnars Driver]

This thread cover Reverb + RYX2070/2070 super.

 

New Reverb. Which GPU? - ED Forums

[jfri]

Re g2 and half res, nobody knows for sure because nobody outside of the reviewers has one...

 

But does it not exist VR set now that uses the same resolution as half G2 ?

[Gunnars Driver]

 

But does it not exist VR set now that uses the same resolution as half G2 ?

 

The Reverb ”G1”/I have the pro version of it) and the upcomming reverg G2 have the exact same resolution and because of this the hardware performance needed will be more or less exactly the same. You can use current data for the G1 to compare for G2.

 

As DCS is a bit different when it comes to pc hardware specs than other games we can not use the official pc hardware requirements only(posted below).

Also I would say ”half resolution” is a bad term. You wont run it in half resolution but you might end up with supersampling lower than 100%, thus using a resolution thats lower than native....you wont need to go even close to half. You probably can use 100% SS and thereby use the native 2160*2160.

 

Some of the settings in DCS are used to decrease the jagged lines, for example MSAA but practical SS also function about the same way. Using the right settings to achieve the same graphic level will reduce the load on the CPU and GPU. There is also settings that actually take a big hit on the CPU&GPU but that doesnt work in VR...these shouldnt be used.

 

With the right settings you can get good results with the 2070 super together with HP Reverb, we already can draw this conclusion from the G1.

The most limiting part will probab ly be the CPU clock speed, and keeping settings in pair witht the cpu resource will make it playable.

Playing on very crowded servers with a lot of activity etc will tend to max the CPU, we see this on multiple threads in this forum. Seems to happen to many people and it is not limited to slow CPUs appearently.

 

 

 

https://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/GetPDF.aspx/c06630565.pdf

[jfri]

There is also settings that actually take a big hit on the CPU&GPU but that doesnt work in VR...these shouldnt be used.

 

Which are those settings ? Do you mean that some settings would affect the quality of the display on a 2D monitor but not in VR ?