From VR back to TrackIR

[Mule]

I make the odd video for my YouTube channel and wanted to record one of my incredible case 1 recovery landings............ehrm...cough! However recording in VR to the standard that most ppl expect is not that easy.

 

So, I thought, the easiest way was to blow the dust off my trusty old trackIR that has been an integral part of my simulation life over the years and just record it that way.

 

It's been many years and the setup was a painless experience. It was quite novel being in the DCS browser in 2D (looks great btw).

 

When I sat in the cockpit or to be more precise looked into the cockpit from about 2 feet away I was shocked at how.....disconnected I was.. It looks great but man oh man.

 

I tried flying around and It was just awful. I did persevere and try a few touch and goes but it was like having one arm tied behind your back and doing something you are so familiar with from a different corner of the room. If that sounded rude that's your fault not mine.

 

I can't do it. I think it would be interesting to try it for a long period of time without trying VR then going back to VR and see what that's like but I am to scared in case I get stuck in some sort of limbo thing and don't like either. Uhhhh!

[Einherjer]

I am absolutely with you... going back to trackir and flat screen is like playing DCS on a Gameboy... suddenly it feels so incredibly wrong.

[dburne]

Lol yeah I gave it a try not too long after getting my Rift, and I was like - uh no, don't think so. Not a chance.

Never tried it again, VR all the way for me.

 

I have no games on my system any longer that do not have VR support, and have not had in quite some time. I shudder to think how many hours of gaming time I have in with my Rift now (got it in Jan 2017). I use it practically daily.

[Lenux]

image quality vs immersion

 

:D

[Einherjer]

image quality vs immersion

 

 

 

:D

 

 

 

Watching a piloting video in HD vs flying the plane yourself with dirty glasses ;)

[Lenux]

I was ready to pull the trigger, few months ago, but I changed my mind

I don't know, but I'm " afraid" only because of the poor image quality, with VR

My TV ( as a pc monitor ) is 55 inches, 4k. That's 80 ppi, same as a monitor 27 inches, full HD

So, i couldn't say " wow" about the resolution I'm using now

After all the researches with the VR, it's pretty hard for me, to switch to " 40 ppi "

Money isn't an issue, i could buy the HTC Vive Pro, but still poor image quality

[Sniper175]

Lenux your to wrapped up with the numbers.

[Dabear]

Lenux...

 

 

I have a 55inch 4k screen in front of my pit.. I have other 4k screens for work and home connected to other computers at my desk.

 

 

 

Now that I've done the VR thing in DCS, Aces High, Elite Dangerous, etc... there is NO going back....

 

 

 

Lenux, try it for a month, you will not go back...

[33-DFTC]

This is a matter of personnal preferences.

 

I used VR for several months and I freaking loved it ! But I had to give away my Rift because of the lower resolution. Even after three months I could not manage to spot and engage as easily ground targets while running close air support missions as with a 2D setup.

 

I am a firm believer of the VR solution in simulations, but not in its current states. I already saved money for my next rig and the second gen headsets. I really do hope the next big thing will come in 2020, I miss the immersion of the VR setting.

[hansangb]

image quality vs immersion

 

:D

 

 

 

 

I actually think it's more like "gaming vs flying" That's not a knock on 4K or triple monitor setup. I mean I've had them all, and have the Predator 34" right now. But it's more for work *and* when I setup controllers. Much easier on a monitor.

 

 

 

But you can *never* fly with a monitor because it's 2D. And our eyes require stereo vision to see depth. It's just not possible with 2D. VR does make it possible albeit with lower resolution. But it works well enough for me, so I'll never go back.

[kunterbunt]

Happened to me too. Was testing a mission and by mistake started in 2D.

It’s like watching someone else fly.

We are living in exceeding times. Most simulations have now support for VR.

[Strut]

For me flying DCS in 2D is like cutting yourself to learn to bleed ! I cannot bring myself to take off my VR, even with its faults it is still pretty damn good. I know im a VR tragic when I go to lay my arm along the side of the cockpit or go to rub a smudge off the dials or DDI. :thumbup: :pilotfly:

[Quadg]

I just record my flights in VR and post the good ones to youtube.

and I don't worry if people complain about visual quality or head shake.

 

if only the track system worked.

then I would post tracks for other VR users to ride in like VR roller-coasters

and not bother with you tube at all.

but we all know the state of the track system..

[Lenux]

How was it the first time you switched from Trackir to VR, guys?

QuadG, could you please share some YouTube videos with DCS?

Thank you

[Mr_Burns]

So what about VR in games like PUBG or Insurgency? Or do you go back to the 4K screen for that?

[Lenux]

I'm talking about flight sims...

[Strut]

How was it the first time you switched from Trackir to VR, guys?

Lenux , when I first put on the Rift and got into a cockpit I really thought what a huge leap in immersion for Flight Simms, and it didnt take long to get used to the drop in visual quality at all. I actually took up a Spitfire and just flew from A to B and felt like I was sitting in a plane flying over Russia. And now with other peripherals like Gloves comming into the market, I can see my self getting those and just flying the full gambit in a virtual cockpit. But I still think I will always be using a HOTAS and Pedals regardless.

[Guppy]

Everything has pros and cons. I'm not a VR fan in its current state. The visual immersion factor is there, but reaching for a mouse breaks it. there is more to "virtual reality" than the visual aspects. So for me, I don't bother with it.

 

And yes I've owned and then sold my VR headset.

[dburne]

How was it the first time you switched from Trackir to VR, guys?

QuadG, could you please share some YouTube videos with DCS?

Thank you

 

For me it was breathtaking and almost unbelievable.

Yes the resolution and how things looked at a distance was somewhat disappointing, but the overall immersion was just incredible and very quickly I realized I could never go back to flying on a monitor - or any gaming for that matter.

 

It did not take me long to unplug and officially retire my trusty Track IR5. I had entered a whole new world with VR gaming. This was in Jan 2017 and I still have close to the same feeling with each session. I also have a blast with the Touch Controllers with other experiences. I have been using my Rift pretty much daily since getting it, whether it is flying the Spit over Normandy, or more recently learning the F/A 18-C in the Persian Gulf with carrier ops ( unbelievable), or commanding a Star Ship in Star Trek Bridge Crew, to exploring the International Space Station (a true test in VR stamina). Even riding on the Apollo 11 as it blasts off and heads to the moon, along with the lunar landing.

 

I so look forward to the next generation of VR devices, in the meantime I am having an absolute blast with my Rift CV1 and will continue to do so.

[birdstrike]

my first day in VR and dcs was like..."waoh, f..k yeah!" the 3d vision and the true to life scale of the aircraft are really something u cant ever even closely reach with a 2d setup, no matter how big your monitor is.

i very quickly became used to this "waoh" effect though, and now when i jump into dcs, it just feels normal...this waoh factor is gone for me personally....

the only thing, which i really hope the next vr generation will bring, is a huge increase in FOV...right now the rift really does narrow down your view and thats really the only dissappointing thing for me personally. i can cope with the lower resolution but the FOV is something i hope will improve soon and drastically.

 

anyway, even with the small FOV, just 3days ago i fired up dcs with my trackir because i wanted to record something, and like most people here i was really shocked at how bad that actually feels after going vr...i just keep my trackir for recording purposes. thats really the only reason. there is just no going back after doing vr.

[Fri13]

So what about VR in games like PUBG or Insurgency? Or do you go back to the 4K screen for that?

 

VR ain't a display. You can't just plug it in and get gaming, you need to game to support VR. And for the moment there are only a handful worth of the games to play in VR outside the simulator genre like DCS World and couple driving simulators.

 

If you want to know how the gameplay gets affected by VR, it is like this:

 

 

 

And those are almost the only ones that are pure FPS shooters ported well to the VR. In the Payday 2 you can play with non-VR players and it is actually fun. You do have limitations there that they don't have like free motion is not so snappy as with keyboard, but you have boosts like being able operate something with one hand and shoot with a another or shoot at two different targets same time.

 

One of the games that most would like to see are ARMA 3, as it already works great with TrackIR, but in VR how do you do the crouching (in payday2 you NEED to crouch if you want to do so, and you do that a lot!) as pressing a button doesn't feel right.

 

Playing ARMA 2 with TrackIR shows how well it works with TrackIR for immersion, but your accuracy and reaction times will suffer because you are moving head with TrackIR (Alt+mouse) and with mouse you move your body/gun.

 

PUBG would be just terrible experience in VR, it is already terrible on the 2D but in VR it would be just death.

Insurgency could work more like ARMA 2, but still require a lot of reworking for mechanics.

 

 

The VR really works great only for the games that are purely designed for it, like example Robo Recall:

 

 

But the sad thing is that all famous FPS shooters really can't be done for VR so easily because you can't withstand gaming hour or two in those, like you can in sitting a virtual seat in cockpit.

Then there are the physical requirements like after sometime you get tired to wave hands, crouch, turn around and take side steps etc.

 

That is why VR has not gained than about 0.5-1% of the all STEAM players and it actually is "dying" because gamers do not want to be physically exercised, the "WOW factor" goes down very quickly.

 

And that is what puts a flight simulators and driving simulators to be the only main target audience as you anyways sit in the chair, you move your hands just little if at all, have them rested on the controllers and it is natural thing to look around with head and you get other benefits just "fitting in".

 

On the moment it becomes to "moving" freely, VR in FPS becomes downer. Why teleportation was the key choice, and if your game story and world doesn't support teleportation (like in the Robo Recall the whole story is around it) then it is a immersion breaker.

 

Even a Doom VFR and Fallout 4 VR etc are bad in VR.

[Fri13]

Everything has pros and cons. I'm not a VR fan in its current state. The visual immersion factor is there, but reaching for a mouse breaks it. there is more to "virtual reality" than the visual aspects. So for me, I don't bother with it.

 

And yes I've owned and then sold my VR headset.

 

Yes the mouse does break it, why I totally prefer the Touch Controllers as the only way to do the VR with the HOTAS.

 

That is the closest thing you can get to immersion as you cant in middle of the fight take off your hands from the HOTAS to easily swing mouse around, you must move the hand around in virtual cockpit and there is big difference is it left or right hand you must use.

 

Since Touch Controllers got the (terrible) right click choice, I have totally abandoned the mouse. It is just immersion breaker and makes things too easy.

Only things that I bind to HOTAS (in clickable modules) is the ones that are in HOTAS and all rest are unbinded so I must use touch controller in their correct virtual cockpit locations.

 

That as well means that when you are preparing to start combat, or you enter to the combat zone, you really appreciate the correct producedes and preparation.

 

Why I think that in VR the mouse should be disabled and only allow the touch controllers to be used. And then fix them by shortening their click distance to just 5-10cm from the "INFINITY WAND" (green beam) so you must reach more, and then correct the right/left mouse clicks to the A/B and X/Y buttons instead trigger and controller 12'clock twist angle.

 

Oh, and disable as well all other bindings from HOTAS than just the ones there should be in HOTAS. If the real pilot had just a trim + 2 buttons and one switch in stick, then so be it.

[ElementLT]

Preach Brother! I have had my VR setup for well over a year now. I also have track IR but never actually use it anymore. After playing in VR for so long going back to 2D just isn't right! Once you go VR its truly hard to go back to 2D.

[BigDuke6ixx]

I had the first gen TrackIR nearly 20yrs ago. Things have moved on, people. First gen VR is amazing.

[BigDuke6ixx]

Yes the mouse does break it, why I totally prefer the Touch Controllers as the only way to do the VR with the HOTAS.

 

That is the closest thing you can get to immersion as you cant in middle of the fight take off your hands from the HOTAS to easily swing mouse around, you must move the hand around in virtual cockpit and there is big difference is it left or right hand you must use.

 

Since Touch Controllers got the (terrible) right click choice, I have totally abandoned the mouse. It is just immersion breaker and makes things too easy.

Only things that I bind to HOTAS (in clickable modules) is the ones that are in HOTAS and all rest are unbinded so I must use touch controller in their correct virtual cockpit locations.

 

That as well means that when you are preparing to start combat, or you enter to the combat zone, you really appreciate the correct producedes and preparation.

 

Why I think that in VR the mouse should be disabled and only allow the touch controllers to be used. And then fix them by shortening their click distance to just 5-10cm from the "INFINITY WAND" (green beam) so you must reach more, and then correct the right/left mouse clicks to the A/B and X/Y buttons instead trigger and controller 12'clock twist angle.

 

Oh, and disable as well all other bindings from HOTAS than just the ones there should be in HOTAS. If the real pilot had just a trim + 2 buttons and one switch in stick, then so be it.

 

Right, so instead of fumbling for your mouse, you fumble for your touch controller?