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X56: has anyone truly fixed the throttle ghosting issue?

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    X56: has anyone truly fixed the throttle ghosting issue?

    Hi all

    Have a fairly new (3 months) X56, awaiting Logitech to get stock so I can have a replacement throttle shipped to me - very frustrating delay, but patience is a virtue... so they say. (I had a broken tension knob and due to the delays in sending me a replacement, I tried it out and I'm getting ghosting).

    Here's the issue:
    1. - Getting regular ghosting from the switches - all of them
    2. - I even started getting some ghosting from the on-throttle hats
    3. - The 3 way switch/button on the throttle is semi-stuck, making it unusable. Works occasionally however mapping it to chaff/flares was a disaster - random CHAFF! FLARE! as the button gets stuck on the top/bottom position.


    Here's what I've tried to fix the first 2 issues:
    • Tried a generic powered USB hub. No change
    • Tried a brand new TP-Link powered 7-port USB3 hub with its own power (4+Amps). Still ghosting. Probably less often though. Stick is fine. Just the throttle with the issues
    • Installed a 7 port USB3 Orico powered PCI-E card in the computer, from which I run only the throttle (everything else is either on the computer or on the TP-Link hub). Was ghosting less often until last night when I tried out the F-16 - constant ghosting including on the hat switches on the throttle. Way worse than before. I've even turned the LEDs off, thinking it was an EMI issue.


    Will look at the ferrite-core solution shortly, depending on when I receive the replacement throttle - however I'm not convinced that this is not an issue with others as well, as I've seen numerous comments about this ghosting issue from others too. I might still end up with the same problem with the replacement.

    My question to the group is: has anyone ever truly fixed this issue with the ferrite core fix? Maybe I just have a dud and the replacement will be fine, however due to poor stock availability from Logitech, I was considering going with a Thrustmaster TWCS 16000 to accompany the X56 stick as it's been 3 months of unreliable simming so far whilst awaiting Logitech to get their act together. Anyone tried this combo? The TWCS seems to be a reasonable throttle.

    #2
    Pulled the throttle apart yesterday (twice, I might add...)

    Added 7 extra ferrite cores to complement the one that's already there, also pulled apart the left throttle half so I could get to the 3-way switch that kept jamming up (really wanted to use that control for chaff/flares but it would keep getting stuck). For the three-way switch, I had to raise the standoffs with little M2 washers where it screws into the shell and insert a couple of fibre washers under the button itself, on the outside, so as to ensure it won't get stuck in a half-pressed state.

    OK so I probably went over the top with the ferrite cores but they're cheap and relatively easy to install.

    Also fixed up (more or less) the tension knob as it had come off the gear, so to speak.

    Have made a few long flights - so far, so good. Not 100% sure it's fixed the issue yet but so far, so good.

    I still keep the LEDs off (turned down to black, to be exact, as you can't specifically switch them off).

    Click image for larger version

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    Comment


      #3
      I liked the 16000 Stick...very smooth and no slop in the middle unfortunately we all have that with the X-56. But if you can get over the middle slop the X-56 stick offers much more. I didn't keep the 16000 set [pedals stick throttle] because the throttle was very cheap, lots of stiction when moving the throttle tiny increments...like mid air refuelling.

      If I could find a fix for the X-56 middle slop it would be an excellent stick for the $.

      BTW...what is ghosting?
      Last edited by fitness88; 07-19-2020, 02:06 PM.

      Comment


        #4
        Yeah it's not a perfect stick but as far as sticks go, the X56 ain't too bad. Not great, based on what I've seen in forums online, but it's OK, I just have to program about 5 units of deadzone on all axes and it's fine. For roll and pitch axes, I had to put in about 40 units of deadzone.

        Ghosting is a common issue (I believe) with the X56 throttle where you'll get phantom (ie. ghost) button pushes from time to time, mostly around the toggle switches on the base. So you'd be flying along and suddenly your landing gear lowers, flaps come down, master arm switches on etc (depending on whether you've programmed anything for the base switches of course... which I did). So I'd be in the middle of air-to-air combat in the F/A-18C and the gear would come down all of a sudden.

        Yes, one could work around it by not using the base switches but I want to use the base throttle switches and rotaries - that's why I bought it. I'm hoping that the ferrite cores I've installed will reduce EMI (Electro-Magnetic Interference) which some believe to be the cause of the phantom button pushes.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by symowallo View Post
          Yeah it's not a perfect stick but as far as sticks go, the X56 ain't too bad. Not great, based on what I've seen in forums online, but it's OK, I just have to program about 5 units of deadzone on all axes and it's fine. For roll and pitch axes, I had to put in about 40 units of deadzone.

          Ghosting is a common issue (I believe) with the X56 throttle where you'll get phantom (ie. ghost) button pushes from time to time, mostly around the toggle switches on the base. So you'd be flying along and suddenly your landing gear lowers, flaps come down, master arm switches on etc (depending on whether you've programmed anything for the base switches of course... which I did). So I'd be in the middle of air-to-air combat in the F/A-18C and the gear would come down all of a sudden.

          Yes, one could work around it by not using the base switches but I want to use the base throttle switches and rotaries - that's why I bought it. I'm hoping that the ferrite cores I've installed will reduce EMI (Electro-Magnetic Interference) which some believe to be the cause of the phantom button pushes.
          Very interesting...
          Thanks for the ghosting explanation. I have the grey X-56 and have been using all the controls for both stick and throttle without any ghosting...happy to say. Are you using the newest drivers and software?
          The unit is very smooth and I only need a minimum dead zone of 3 for pitch and roll, but I do wish I could figure out how to get rid of the center slop. In actual flying it doesn't really impact the movement because once out of the center you don't feel it any more but it bothers me never the less just because it's there.
          I can't believe you are using 40??
          Last edited by fitness88; 07-19-2020, 10:55 PM.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by fitness88 View Post
            Very interesting...
            Thanks for the ghosting explanation. I have the grey X-56 and have been using all the controls for both stick and throttle without any ghosting...happy to say. Are you using the newest drivers and software?
            The unit is very smooth and I only need a minimum dead zone of 3 for pitch and roll, but I do wish I could figure out how to get rid of the center slop. In actual flying it doesn't really impact the movement because once out of the center you don't feel it any more but it bothers me never the less just because it's there.
            I can't believe you are using 40??
            Yep, using the latest drivers, latest everything. I've put it on a separate hub, separate PCI-E USB3 card, etc etc. I've done everything I can think of.

            It was in the X56 application that I had to use 40 units of deadzone to stop the roll/pitch axis from jittering in the application (I think it was 40 on roll, 30 on pitch or vice-versa). However in DCS I just use 10 - as I don't believe the units are the same between the X56 application vs DCS, but I'm not sure.

            Another few test flights so I can say for sure it's been solved... maybe a month of thrashing it, just to be sure. Yep mine's the grey one too.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by symowallo View Post
              Yep, using the latest drivers, latest everything. I've put it on a separate hub, separate PCI-E USB3 card, etc etc. I've done everything I can think of.

              It was in the X56 application that I had to use 40 units of deadzone to stop the roll/pitch axis from jittering in the application (I think it was 40 on roll, 30 on pitch or vice-versa). However in DCS I just use 10 - as I don't believe the units are the same between the X56 application vs DCS, but I'm not sure.

              Another few test flights so I can say for sure it's been solved... maybe a month of thrashing it, just to be sure. Yep mine's the grey one too.
              Have you tried using a USB 2.0 port on your computer?
              Are you using any adapters or extension cables?
              Are you mapping through Logitech and/or DCS?
              In Logitch settings I zero out the stick dead zones [primary influence] and only adjust dz from the DCS settings [secondary influence].
              Is it always the same switch that activates automatically or does it happen under specific conditions ?
              Have you checked for conflicts between input commands ...using same key combo from DCS and Logitech.
              Sorry if I'm asking anything you've already mentioned but I'm on my way out.

              Comment


                #8
                Hey mate, answers inline...

                Originally posted by fitness88 View Post
                Have you tried using a USB 2.0 port on your computer?
                Yes
                Originally posted by fitness88 View Post
                Are you using any adapters or extension cables?
                Have tried with 30cm USB3 extension and without. No difference.
                Originally posted by fitness88 View Post
                Are you mapping through Logitech and/or DCS?
                DCS
                Originally posted by fitness88 View Post
                In Logitch settings I zero out the stick dead zones [primary influence] and only adjust dz from the DCS settings [secondary influence].
                Is it always the same switch that activates automatically or does it happen under specific conditions ?
                It's random - basically any of the base switches will activate randomly. In the middle of combat, the landing gear wants to come down if I am slow enough, flaps will activate, master arm on/off - which are all switch assigned. Any/all switches activate randomly.
                Originally posted by fitness88 View Post
                Have you checked for conflicts between input commands ...using same key combo from DCS and Logitech.
                Sorry if I'm asking anything you've already mentioned but I'm on my way out.
                No problem! Yes I've checked everything. There's several others on reddit and various other places who've experienced similar issues on DCS and also on Elite Dangerous, which anecdotally points me towards it being a hardware rather than software issue. I've noticed a reduction in ghosting after installation of the ferrite cores. Hoping to receive my replacement unit soon but it's been almost 4 months so far - seems that Logitech have trouble keeping this unit in stock (or are having troubles getting it manufactured!)

                Comment


                  #9
                  "the landing gear wants to come down if I am slow enough" This is normal as per manual page 65...Primary Radar Low Altitude Warning. If the landing gear is up and locked and the radar altitude
                  is less than the Low Altitude Limit index, the primary low altitude warning tone/voice alert is heard in
                  the pilot's headset. A “Whoop, Whoop” warning tone is heard.


                  I've heard of a pinched wire harness causing strange behavior [I believe this was in the blue version and corrected in the grey], do you find it happens only when moving the throttle or other button/switch?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    BTW, I get no answer, where do you communicate for replacements/parts?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by fitness88 View Post
                      "the landing gear wants to come down if I am slow enough" This is normal as per manual page 65...Primary Radar Low Altitude Warning. If the landing gear is up and locked and the radar altitude
                      is less than the Low Altitude Limit index, the primary low altitude warning tone/voice alert is heard in
                      the pilot's headset. A “Whoop, Whoop” warning tone is heard.


                      I've heard of a pinched wire harness causing strange behavior [I believe this was in the blue version and corrected in the grey], do you find it happens only when moving the throttle or other button/switch?
                      Basically, the landing gear will activate, master arm/on off, etc etc - at random times. If I'm slow enough, the gear will come down at random times (irrespective of aircraft). It was funny doing some dogfights - I'd be whipping the F/A-18 around in mock combat, trying to get a lead on an F-14 and suddenly my gear was down, flaps were down and master arm off. Hilarious!

                      Essentially, anything mapped to one of the base switches will activate at random. This was even more noticeable on the F-14 as I had wing sweep mapped to the base switches.

                      Not specifically happening in relation to throttle position but there's only so many things I can test. I've already opened the throttle up and there's no wire pinching, and I don't think it's an issue with this model (X55 maybe).

                      As far as parts go, you could try Logitech support directly, although they're having trouble getting stock at the moment (just try their support inbox support@logi.com maybe)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I bought the x56 right after it's release a few years back. Was plagued with ghost presses for a long time. Tried several solutions, but nothing worked.

                        What finally fixed it for me was connecting the x56 throttle to a cheap external powered usb 2.0 hub, with no other devices connected to the same hub, and then connecting the hub to a usb 2.0 port on the MB and leaving the other port on the same usb lane on the MB free/unconnected.

                        After I did that I never had a single ghost press ever again.

                        Maybe you already tried that or it doesn't work fo you for some reason. Best of luck anyways!

                        Sent fra min G8441 via Tapatalk

                        Comment


                          #13
                          symowallo I'm out of ideas
                          SACG_Yeti seems to have an interesting post for you...let us know how it turns out.

                          Good luck!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by SACG_Yeti View Post
                            I bought the x56 right after it's release a few years back. Was plagued with ghost presses for a long time. Tried several solutions, but nothing worked.

                            What finally fixed it for me was connecting the x56 throttle to a cheap external powered usb 2.0 hub, with no other devices connected to the same hub, and then connecting the hub to a usb 2.0 port on the MB and leaving the other port on the same usb lane on the MB free/unconnected.

                            After I did that I never had a single ghost press ever again.

                            Maybe you already tried that or it doesn't work fo you for some reason. Best of luck anyways!

                            Sent fra min G8441 via Tapatalk
                            All good, thanks for the suggestions. However I've tried all of that. Every USB combo I could think of. I've got a dedicated powered USB3 hub, a PCI-E 7 port USB3 powered card - all sorts of stuff.

                            Anyway, since I installed the 7 additional ferrite cores around what I believe are some of the less protected wires, it's been better. 10 test flights so far over the last week and no ghost presses so far.

                            I don't believe it's just a USB issue. I think that's part of it, but not the whole cause. I certainly saw improvements after isolating its USB connection, but it didn't fix the issue until I opened it up and installed the ferrite cores for better EMI protection.

                            My refund arrived from Logitech today. It doesn't cover the full cost, but I guess their argument is that the joystick still works, so I can't complain too much.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Happy to say that I’ve had no more ghosting in the last 8 missions that I’ve flown in the last week, after performing my ferrite core “upgrade”.

                              It’ll be interesting to see how it goes while the system is under heavy stress, but I’m not good enough with the sim yet... mostly simple missions so far.

                              For anyone interested, I purchased the ferrite cores via AliExpress.

                              Comment

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