X56: has anyone truly fixed the throttle ghosting issue?

[symowallo]

Hi all

 

Have a fairly new (3 months) X56, awaiting Logitech to get stock so I can have a replacement throttle shipped to me - very frustrating delay, but patience is a virtue... so they say. (I had a broken tension knob and due to the delays in sending me a replacement, I tried it out and I'm getting ghosting).

 

Here's the issue:

1. - Getting regular ghosting from the switches - all of them
   
2. - I even started getting some ghosting from the on-throttle hats
   
3. - The 3 way switch/button on the throttle is semi-stuck, making it unusable. Works occasionally however mapping it to chaff/flares was a disaster - random CHAFF! FLARE! as the button gets stuck on the top/bottom position.
   

 

Here's what I've tried to fix the first 2 issues:

 

• Tried a generic powered USB hub. No change
  
• Tried a brand new TP-Link powered 7-port USB3 hub with its own power (4+Amps). Still ghosting. Probably less often though. Stick is fine. Just the throttle with the issues
  
• Installed a 7 port USB3 Orico powered PCI-E card in the computer, from which I run only the throttle (everything else is either on the computer or on the TP-Link hub). Was ghosting less often until last night when I tried out the F-16 - constant ghosting including on the hat switches on the throttle. Way worse than before. I've even turned the LEDs off, thinking it was an EMI issue.
  

 

Will look at the ferrite-core solution shortly, depending on when I receive the replacement throttle - however I'm not convinced that this is not an issue with others as well, as I've seen numerous comments about this ghosting issue from others too. I might still end up with the same problem with the replacement.

 

My question to the group is: has anyone ever truly fixed this issue with the ferrite core fix? Maybe I just have a dud and the replacement will be fine, however due to poor stock availability from Logitech, I was considering going with a Thrustmaster TWCS 16000 to accompany the X56 stick as it's been 3 months of unreliable simming so far whilst awaiting Logitech to get their act together. Anyone tried this combo? The TWCS seems to be a reasonable throttle.

[symowallo]

Pulled the throttle apart yesterday (twice, I might add...)

 

Added 7 extra ferrite cores to complement the one that's already there, also pulled apart the left throttle half so I could get to the 3-way switch that kept jamming up (really wanted to use that control for chaff/flares but it would keep getting stuck). For the three-way switch, I had to raise the standoffs with little M2 washers where it screws into the shell and insert a couple of fibre washers under the button itself, on the outside, so as to ensure it won't get stuck in a half-pressed state.

 

OK so I probably went over the top with the ferrite cores but they're cheap and relatively easy to install.

 

Also fixed up (more or less) the tension knob as it had come off the gear, so to speak.

 

Have made a few long flights - so far, so good. Not 100% sure it's fixed the issue yet but so far, so good.

 

I still keep the LEDs off (turned down to black, to be exact, as you can't specifically switch them off).

 

[fitness88]

I liked the 16000 Stick...very smooth and no slop in the middle unfortunately we all have that with the X-56. But if you can get over the middle slop the X-56 stick offers much more. I didn't keep the 16000 set [pedals stick throttle] because the throttle was very cheap, lots of stiction when moving the throttle tiny increments...like mid air refuelling.

 

If I could find a fix for the X-56 middle slop it would be an excellent stick for the $.

 

BTW...what is ghosting?

Edited July 19, 2020 by fitness88

[symowallo]

Yeah it's not a perfect stick but as far as sticks go, the X56 ain't too bad. Not great, based on what I've seen in forums online, but it's OK, I just have to program about 5 units of deadzone on all axes and it's fine. For roll and pitch axes, I had to put in about 40 units of deadzone.

 

Ghosting is a common issue (I believe) with the X56 throttle where you'll get phantom (ie. ghost) button pushes from time to time, mostly around the toggle switches on the base. So you'd be flying along and suddenly your landing gear lowers, flaps come down, master arm switches on etc (depending on whether you've programmed anything for the base switches of course... which I did). So I'd be in the middle of air-to-air combat in the F/A-18C and the gear would come down all of a sudden.

 

Yes, one could work around it by not using the base switches but I want to use the base throttle switches and rotaries - that's why I bought it. I'm hoping that the ferrite cores I've installed will reduce EMI (Electro-Magnetic Interference) which some believe to be the cause of the phantom button pushes.

[fitness88]

Yeah it's not a perfect stick but as far as sticks go, the X56 ain't too bad. Not great, based on what I've seen in forums online, but it's OK, I just have to program about 5 units of deadzone on all axes and it's fine. For roll and pitch axes, I had to put in about 40 units of deadzone.

 

Ghosting is a common issue (I believe) with the X56 throttle where you'll get phantom (ie. ghost) button pushes from time to time, mostly around the toggle switches on the base. So you'd be flying along and suddenly your landing gear lowers, flaps come down, master arm switches on etc (depending on whether you've programmed anything for the base switches of course... which I did). So I'd be in the middle of air-to-air combat in the F/A-18C and the gear would come down all of a sudden.

 

Yes, one could work around it by not using the base switches but I want to use the base throttle switches and rotaries - that's why I bought it. I'm hoping that the ferrite cores I've installed will reduce EMI (Electro-Magnetic Interference) which some believe to be the cause of the phantom button pushes.

 

Very interesting...

Thanks for the ghosting explanation. I have the grey X-56 and have been using all the controls for both stick and throttle without any ghosting...happy to say. Are you using the newest drivers and software?

The unit is very smooth and I only need a minimum dead zone of 3 for pitch and roll, but I do wish I could figure out how to get rid of the center slop. In actual flying it doesn't really impact the movement because once out of the center you don't feel it any more but it bothers me never the less just because it's there.

I can't believe you are using 40??

Edited July 19, 2020 by fitness88

[symowallo]

Very interesting...

Thanks for the ghosting explanation. I have the grey X-56 and have been using all the controls for both stick and throttle without any ghosting...happy to say. Are you using the newest drivers and software?

The unit is very smooth and I only need a minimum dead zone of 3 for pitch and roll, but I do wish I could figure out how to get rid of the center slop. In actual flying it doesn't really impact the movement because once out of the center you don't feel it any more but it bothers me never the less just because it's there.

I can't believe you are using 40??

 

Yep, using the latest drivers, latest everything. I've put it on a separate hub, separate PCI-E USB3 card, etc etc. I've done everything I can think of.

 

It was in the X56 application that I had to use 40 units of deadzone to stop the roll/pitch axis from jittering in the application (I think it was 40 on roll, 30 on pitch or vice-versa). However in DCS I just use 10 - as I don't believe the units are the same between the X56 application vs DCS, but I'm not sure.

 

Another few test flights so I can say for sure it's been solved... maybe a month of thrashing it, just to be sure. Yep mine's the grey one too.

[fitness88]

Yep, using the latest drivers, latest everything. I've put it on a separate hub, separate PCI-E USB3 card, etc etc. I've done everything I can think of.

 

It was in the X56 application that I had to use 40 units of deadzone to stop the roll/pitch axis from jittering in the application (I think it was 40 on roll, 30 on pitch or vice-versa). However in DCS I just use 10 - as I don't believe the units are the same between the X56 application vs DCS, but I'm not sure.

 

Another few test flights so I can say for sure it's been solved... maybe a month of thrashing it, just to be sure. Yep mine's the grey one too.

 

Have you tried using a USB 2.0 port on your computer?

Are you using any adapters or extension cables?

Are you mapping through Logitech and/or DCS?

In Logitch settings I zero out the stick dead zones [primary influence] and only adjust dz from the DCS settings [secondary influence].

Is it always the same switch that activates automatically or does it happen under specific conditions ?

Have you checked for conflicts between input commands ...using same key combo from DCS and Logitech.

Sorry if I'm asking anything you've already mentioned but I'm on my way out.

[symowallo]

Hey mate, answers inline...

 

Have you tried using a USB 2.0 port on your computer?

Yes

Are you using any adapters or extension cables?

Have tried with 30cm USB3 extension and without. No difference.

Are you mapping through Logitech and/or DCS?

DCS

In Logitch settings I zero out the stick dead zones [primary influence] and only adjust dz from the DCS settings [secondary influence].

Is it always the same switch that activates automatically or does it happen under specific conditions ?

It's random - basically any of the base switches will activate randomly. In the middle of combat, the landing gear wants to come down if I am slow enough, flaps will activate, master arm on/off - which are all switch assigned. Any/all switches activate randomly.

Have you checked for conflicts between input commands ...using same key combo from DCS and Logitech.

Sorry if I'm asking anything you've already mentioned but I'm on my way out.

No problem! Yes I've checked everything. There's several others on reddit and various other places who've experienced similar issues on DCS and also on Elite Dangerous, which anecdotally points me towards it being a hardware rather than software issue. I've noticed a reduction in ghosting after installation of the ferrite cores. Hoping to receive my replacement unit soon but it's been almost 4 months so far - seems that Logitech have trouble keeping this unit in stock (or are having troubles getting it manufactured!)

[fitness88]

"the landing gear wants to come down if I am slow enough" This is normal as per manual page 65...Primary Radar Low Altitude Warning. If the landing gear is up and locked and the radar altitude

is less than the Low Altitude Limit index, the primary low altitude warning tone/voice alert is heard in

the pilot's headset. A “Whoop, Whoop” warning tone is heard.

 

I've heard of a pinched wire harness causing strange behavior [i believe this was in the blue version and corrected in the grey], do you find it happens only when moving the throttle or other button/switch?

[fitness88]

BTW, I get no answer, where do you communicate for replacements/parts?

[symowallo]

"the landing gear wants to come down if I am slow enough" This is normal as per manual page 65...Primary Radar Low Altitude Warning. If the landing gear is up and locked and the radar altitude

is less than the Low Altitude Limit index, the primary low altitude warning tone/voice alert is heard in

the pilot's headset. A “Whoop, Whoop” warning tone is heard.

 

I've heard of a pinched wire harness causing strange behavior [i believe this was in the blue version and corrected in the grey], do you find it happens only when moving the throttle or other button/switch?

 

Basically, the landing gear will activate, master arm/on off, etc etc - at random times. If I'm slow enough, the gear will come down at random times (irrespective of aircraft). It was funny doing some dogfights - I'd be whipping the F/A-18 around in mock combat, trying to get a lead on an F-14 and suddenly my gear was down, flaps were down and master arm off. Hilarious!

 

Essentially, anything mapped to one of the base switches will activate at random. This was even more noticeable on the F-14 as I had wing sweep mapped to the base switches.

 

Not specifically happening in relation to throttle position but there's only so many things I can test. I've already opened the throttle up and there's no wire pinching, and I don't think it's an issue with this model (X55 maybe).

 

As far as parts go, you could try Logitech support directly, although they're having trouble getting stock at the moment (just try their support inbox support@logi.com maybe)

[SACG_Yeti]

I bought the x56 right after it's release a few years back. Was plagued with ghost presses for a long time. Tried several solutions, but nothing worked.

 

What finally fixed it for me was connecting the x56 throttle to a cheap external powered usb 2.0 hub, with no other devices connected to the same hub, and then connecting the hub to a usb 2.0 port on the MB and leaving the other port on the same usb lane on the MB free/unconnected.

 

After I did that I never had a single ghost press ever again.

 

Maybe you already tried that or it doesn't work fo you for some reason. Best of luck anyways!

 

Sent fra min G8441 via Tapatalk

[fitness88]

symowallo I'm out of ideas:book:

SACG_Yeti seems to have an interesting post for you...let us know how it turns out.

 

Good luck!

[symowallo]

I bought the x56 right after it's release a few years back. Was plagued with ghost presses for a long time. Tried several solutions, but nothing worked.

 

What finally fixed it for me was connecting the x56 throttle to a cheap external powered usb 2.0 hub, with no other devices connected to the same hub, and then connecting the hub to a usb 2.0 port on the MB and leaving the other port on the same usb lane on the MB free/unconnected.

 

After I did that I never had a single ghost press ever again.

 

Maybe you already tried that or it doesn't work fo you for some reason. Best of luck anyways!

 

Sent fra min G8441 via Tapatalk

 

All good, thanks for the suggestions. However I've tried all of that. Every USB combo I could think of. I've got a dedicated powered USB3 hub, a PCI-E 7 port USB3 powered card - all sorts of stuff.

 

Anyway, since I installed the 7 additional ferrite cores around what I believe are some of the less protected wires, it's been better. 10 test flights so far over the last week and no ghost presses so far.

 

I don't believe it's just a USB issue. I think that's part of it, but not the whole cause. I certainly saw improvements after isolating its USB connection, but it didn't fix the issue until I opened it up and installed the ferrite cores for better EMI protection.

 

My refund arrived from Logitech today. It doesn't cover the full cost, but I guess their argument is that the joystick still works, so I can't complain too much.

[symowallo]

Happy to say that I’ve had no more ghosting in the last 8 missions that I’ve flown in the last week, after performing my ferrite core “upgrade”.

 

It’ll be interesting to see how it goes while the system is under heavy stress, but I’m not good enough with the sim yet... mostly simple missions so far.

 

For anyone interested, I purchased the ferrite cores via AliExpress.

[mmoccio]

I had this issue for a while. I ran the throttle to a powered USB hub in to a PCI USB card. Seemed to fix the issue and have no had ghosting since.

[symowallo]

2 weeks later, no ghosting. Gave it to my son to thrash and he reports no ghosting. Pretty happy with that fix - wasn't too difficult and it was cheap.

[72westy]

Happy to say that I’ve had no more ghosting in the last 8 missions that I’ve flown in the last week, after performing my ferrite core “upgrade”.

 

It’ll be interesting to see how it goes while the system is under heavy stress, but I’m not good enough with the sim yet... mostly simple missions so far.

 

For anyone interested, I purchased the ferrite cores via AliExpress.

 

 

 

 

For anyone interested in the cores what size do you recommend?

[symowallo]

For anyone interested in the cores what size do you recommend?

 

I used a bunch of ferrite cores with 3mm inner diameter and 5mm inner diameter.

 

For example, here's some in 3mm: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32827107564.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.2fcf4c4dtZT6zJ

 

Photo of the X56 innards after installation is in the first pic in this thread.

[firefox121]

The thing that worked fo me was to plug the saitek throttle and the stick on two usbs 3.0 and to turn OFF the ilumination of the two devices, (I fly in Vr and I dont need it), at this moment all the ghosting issues dissapeared.

 

Hope it would help

[Andrew u.k.]

Powered usb, turn off the lights.

 

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[AE0MT]

On 7/19/2020 at 7:30 AM, symowallo said:

Pulled the throttle apart yesterday (twice, I might add...)

 

Added 7 extra ferrite cores to complement the one that's already there, also pulled apart the left throttle half so I could get to the 3-way switch that kept jamming up (really wanted to use that control for chaff/flares but it would keep getting stuck). For the three-way switch, I had to raise the standoffs with little M2 washers where it screws into the shell and insert a couple of fibre washers under the button itself, on the outside, so as to ensure it won't get stuck in a half-pressed state.

 

OK so I probably went over the top with the ferrite cores but they're cheap and relatively easy to install.

 

Also fixed up (more or less) the tension knob as it had come off the gear, so to speak.

 

Have made a few long flights - so far, so good. Not 100% sure it's fixed the issue yet but so far, so good.

 

I still keep the LEDs off (turned down to black, to be exact, as you can't specifically switch them off).

 

This is very interesting. I thought the throttles were hall effect, but they are clearly potentiometer based, from your photo.

I have considered adding an individual power supply to the stick, or adding capacitors to the switches to de-bounce the switch. Any thoughts on either of these 2 ideas?

[Splinko]

Ok, so i have tried literally everything, from ED forums, Reddit, random flight sim forums. Nothing has worked. I have been trying different ferrite configurations and ive found something. My inputs only ghost when using an axis controller (analog), so the 2 rotaries on the base, or the 2 rotaries on the actual grip. 

 

Anyone have an idea what this could be? Even with ferrites on these inputs it will still activate random buttons when using any of the rotaries. It also seems like it is when i get to the extent of the range of the rotaries, especially when i first activate the input. 

 

Furthermore, the wiring is all in good shape, and the connections are solid. 

[fitness88]

2 hours ago, Splinko said:

Ok, so i have tried literally everything, from ED forums, Reddit, random flight sim forums. Nothing has worked. I have been trying different ferrite configurations and ive found something. My inputs only ghost when using an axis controller (analog), so the 2 rotaries on the base, or the 2 rotaries on the actual grip. 

 

Anyone have an idea what this could be? Even with ferrites on these inputs it will still activate random buttons when using any of the rotaries. It also seems like it is when i get to the extent of the range of the rotaries, especially when i first activate the input. 

 

Furthermore, the wiring is all in good shape, and the connections are solid. 

Have you tried turning all lighting affect off on both controllers?

[Tantrumus]

Saw this thread and registered in hopes to help out.   Everyone is chasing a "Red Herring" because this is a blatant manufacturing QA/Engineering DEFECT.

 

I've been an owner of x56 since 2017 and encountered this back then and yes the powered USB 3.0 hub, and attaching throttle to the hub and keeping the stick separated from that on another usb chain/channel "helped" but did not fully eliminate the issue.

 

There are no permanent fixes aside from opening it up and doing some work.   The issue stems from when the throttle moves some wires in the harness gets crimped regularly.  This harness gets flexed continuously as you move the throttle.

 

References for permanent solution it is ugly folks.  I plan on doing this myself.   But I guess referenced in below thread is a company that will do the work for you if you are shy about replacing all the wiring.   Unfortunately there is no email to the company just a company name.

 

Hope this helps!   I am going to try out option 2 below and take some of the ideas from the first link.   Remember even though the video is for an X55, do some searching on that, the ghosting issue persisted back then.   X56 didnt change, Logitech bought Saitek.   Not really sure if they did anything on the manuf. end since my unit with all the problems was purchased from Logitech directly.    

 

Going to crack it open today and see if I see the cracking wires as shown ... expecting I will see issues.

 

 

Thread for fix:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comments/5kp6pv/saitek_x55_x56_pro_rhina_permanent_fix/

 

Defect shown on video in action:

 

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Tantrumus