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Honey, I developed FFB joystick (DIY)


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Finally, it is time to introduce my FFB joystick prototype! I spent a lot of time and learned a lot of new stuff when work on it. So here what is already implemented:

 

- Works as standard USB FFB device, understands standard FFB protocol. No drivers. No plugins.

- Supports spring, constant, ramp an periodic effects.

- Custom firmware for STM32 microcontroller family.

- Currently ODrive controller is used as the hardware, but custom made, much more affordable controller is on its way from manufacturer.

- Uses affordable hobby grade brushless motors.

- Nearly 8Nm of torque planned with 20A of current per motor.

- Smooth operation almost without noticeable cogging.

 

In plans:

- Support for Thrustmaster grips.

- PC software for interactive effect gains tuning.

- Improvements :)

 

And a little bit of media :joystick:

 

IMG_20200813_193216.thumb.jpg.c3878b6749b30ebae78ae7363a574d56.jpg

IMG_20201002_143833.thumb.jpg.94290364336c4bf49716bac1950bd264.jpg

IMG_20201002_143917.thumb.jpg.06d6626060a4d9ce13a7faae13717112.jpg

IMG_20201002_144217.thumb.jpg.59046c5f6b83fb8251dd0bb370c92b8d.jpg


Edited by propeler
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My bank account number, please help yourself, let me know when i can expect delivery

 

555639857=)

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skunk160 | Win10 PRO 64bit | i7-4770K 3.50 GHz | 32GB DDR3/1866MHz | GIGABYTE GeForce GTX 1080 x2 | Oculus Rift S | Virpil MongoosT-50CM2 | Virpil F-14B grip | Virpil 200m Curved Extension | PointCTRL | Delta Sim TM Slew | Sim Bandit AHCP | MFG Crosswind Pedals | //FOX2 Switch Boxes | RECARO SPG Seat | AuraSound AST-2B-4 Pro Bass Transducer x2

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That is really impressive. How much did you spend on parts? I am always on the lookout for the next msffb2.

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That is really impressive. How much did you spend on parts? I am always on the lookout for the next msffb2.

 

Did not make exact calculations, because there was some iterations thrown away into trash busket :) But I think something around 650$ in total. Depends whery much on price of 3d printing and cutting/bending metal parts.

 

There is another improved version of gimbal in printing service now. Will make precise calculations when it arrive and will be tested.

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Very impressive! Did you already try the force trim options in the Huey, Mi-8 or Ka-50? (default trimming option in special settings)

i9 13900K @5.5GHz, Z790 Gigabyte Aorus Master, RTX4090 Waterforce, 64 GB DDR5 @5600, Pico 4, HOTAS & Rudder: all Virpil with Rhino FFB base made by VPforce, DCS: all modules

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Very impressive! Did you already try the force trim options in the Huey, Mi-8 or Ka-50? (default trimming option in special settings)

 

If you mean trim which is assigned to T button by default - yes. it works. Needs position smoothing on button press, but works.

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20 A of current per motor, ... hehe :)

 

Do you think it is too much for the motors? :) Those motors are rated for 55A max. 20A for them is a super mild condition. Taking into account that such current will be at max deflection only.

 

How much time have you put into the project Propeler?

 

oH.. It is another story. Building something is my hobby, so I spend time for it not on regular basis. When I started it I was total zero in electronics. Now I know a lot about power electronics, microcontrolers, USB protocol, PID algorythms, FOC motor controll, PCB prototyping and so on. Reading about all of that things took most of the invested time. But those things are simply interesting for me :)

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Looks very good. I think that a kit might be a good option to have.

 

I plan to open CAD files for it when I will be sure that everythig is working togetther and anyone who is interested in it can build it. And will build it for those who would like to have ready for use solution :)

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I plan to open CAD files for it when I will be sure that everythig is working togetther and anyone who is interested in it can build it. And will build it for those who would like to have ready for use solution :)

 

 

Very nice. I’m looking forward to getting further informations.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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@propeler

 

Here is the CAD data of the base thread for grips M36x2-6g (by Baur from Virpil): https://forum.virpil.com/index.php?/topic/656-warbrd-base-thread/&do=findComment&comment=6006

Should work for all the compatible grips out there.

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i9 13900K @5.5GHz, Z790 Gigabyte Aorus Master, RTX4090 Waterforce, 64 GB DDR5 @5600, Pico 4, HOTAS & Rudder: all Virpil with Rhino FFB base made by VPforce, DCS: all modules

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If you mean trim which is assigned to T button by default - yes. it works. Needs position smoothing on button press, but works.

 

Great! The recommended procedure is to press and hold the trim button when moving to a new position (Force is off), then release (Force is on). Pressing the trim button shifts control authority from SAS to pilot, releasing gives authority back to the SAS. During constant maneuvering you basically hold the button all the time and it's mapped to the grip (thumb button).


Edited by Alec Delorean

i9 13900K @5.5GHz, Z790 Gigabyte Aorus Master, RTX4090 Waterforce, 64 GB DDR5 @5600, Pico 4, HOTAS & Rudder: all Virpil with Rhino FFB base made by VPforce, DCS: all modules

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At 8 NM of force you'll need to be careful with the thrustmaster grips. The Zamac tailpiece tends to fail from high force loading. There's a fulcrum point where it comes out of the grip body. May want to set a force limit for standard Grips.

 

There are 3d printed plastic (and maybe 3d printed metal as well?) replacements for this part sold on Shapeways. That should solve the issue.

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@propeler

 

For rough and quick prototyping, you can take a Virpil WarBRD base, precalibrate a grip with it and snatch the tiny PCB out of it afterwards. You'll end up with two USB devices in one, but instantly have a fully working highend grip. (That's what i did)

i9 13900K @5.5GHz, Z790 Gigabyte Aorus Master, RTX4090 Waterforce, 64 GB DDR5 @5600, Pico 4, HOTAS & Rudder: all Virpil with Rhino FFB base made by VPforce, DCS: all modules

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Please keep us informed. I'm thinking since a couple of months to upgrade my stick on the msffb2, but i have to get a second one before i make an attempt in case i break something. I cannot go back to a dead stick. If you can manage to keep the costs below 1k i will start saving for one.

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https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=223776
 
My Frankenwinder ffb2 stick
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Do you think it is too much for the motors? :) Those motors are rated for 55A max. 20A for them is a super mild condition. Taking into account that such current will be at max deflection only.

 

 

 

oH.. It is another story. Building something is my hobby, so I spend time for it not on regular basis. When I started it I was total zero in electronics. Now I know a lot about power electronics, microcontrolers, USB protocol, PID algorythms, FOC motor controll, PCB prototyping and so on. Reading about all of that things took most of the invested time. But those things are simply interesting for me :)

 

This is friggin awesome Propeller!!. A salute to you sir.

 

I absolutely love the fact that you just jumped in there and learned what was required to accomplish each step along the way. The internet is an amazing tool for those with the interest and desire to learn. It's one thing to read about something or learn it, and something completely different and infinitely more difficult to do what you have done.

 

I think you made some great well thought out design choices, and component selections, not to mention a nice clean prototype execution. My prototypes never look that nice.

 

I have done a bit of work on FFB stick for the masses, but specific to DCS, using the export lua. I think your way, using standard FFB is probably better for most people.

 

Great Choice on RC motors, I am guessing a high pole count out-runner? I initially went that route and only switched to using steppers in unipolar mode as BLDC motors with custom controllers to reduce cost of a production unit.

 

Reference the motors 20 amps comment. Of course you are correct. As you know, amps mean very little without volts. It looks like your pushing 24 volts through those, so you max intermittent load is around 480 watts. I am guessing those motors are probably good for a 1000 watts. Some of the RC motor manufactures don't post the watts, but will post the max amps, like you stated yours were 50, and then they will post max number of cells. such as (6s)

 

Example

6s = 6 Lipo cells x 3.7volts each = approx 22 volts

22 volts x 50 rated amps for the motor = 1100 rated watts

 

Anyway, I know you already knew all of that, that's more for the other poster. I am looking forward to following this. You clearly have previously untapped aptitude and skills. I am really glad you chose this project as your first, and it was quite a big bite to take for your first. I honestly have way to much on my plate and realistically won't have time to bring mine to production.

 

Thanks for sharing, and again, great friggin job!!!.

 

Miles

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Update for the gimbal set. Inspired by MS FFB one. Improved stiffness. All moving joins are on massive ball bearings. Hope it will be final iteration for gimbal.

 

Looks fantastic!

i9 13900K @5.5GHz, Z790 Gigabyte Aorus Master, RTX4090 Waterforce, 64 GB DDR5 @5600, Pico 4, HOTAS & Rudder: all Virpil with Rhino FFB base made by VPforce, DCS: all modules

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