1.2.2 cockpit to animation issue?

I was working on a modified wunderluft aircraft that uses the P51 cockpit. I have a nice HUD in the works and was working on adding some controls this week. Things worked fine and I could do all the functions and see the animation extenrally (gears, flaps, canopy, airbrake).

So after doing the 1.2.2 update I was working on my plane and noticed that I couldn't lower the flaps. I looked at the external view and noticed that none of my flight surfaces were moving as well. It was still able to taxi on the ground and fly, but none of the external animations were showing (except canopy open and close).

So at first I thought it was additions I had made to the HUD code that was causing this. So to test this theory out I created a new cockpit folder and told the plane lua to link to it. Since it was empty it results in using the SU-25T cockpit by default. With this configuration all the animations worked and I was able to lower/raise flaps, airbrakes, gears, and all the control surfaces animated as they should.

So something in my cockpit folder was causing this. Nothing odd was showing up in the log files. I used SVN and brought back a version from yesterday before I did the update that I knew work and tested it out - same issues with the animations.

So to really test this I downloaded the Wunderluft code fresh and made no modifications. It shows the P51 no textured cockpit. When I started up the plane, again nothing animated besides the canopy. I was able to fly it, but without raising gear or flaps its a bit hard.

So in order to be through I renamed the cockpit folder and created an empty cockpit folder. This gave me a SU-25T pit which once again works fine.

So anyone know what changed in the update and any clue how to fix it. Kind of puts me dead in the water here since I can't test any updates I make to the cockpit.

Yep, exactly the problem I'm having. I'm working on it, if I find a solution, I'll definitely post it.

I guess it makes me feel a little better knowing I'm not the only one.

Although I did waste three hours in all this......but I guess that part of the fun right?

It's part of the build-up to success. ;)

i think they are changing stuff/unifying stuff? (ed?).

as right now SFM does it one way, EFM another, AI this way, Human Controllled another..

it'd be nice if they all did it the same way, less coding, less redundancy.

I suspect that something in either devices_init or mainpanel_init is causing this. Hopefully will be able to get some time today to try to run tests. Kids have tons of activities today so I'm going to be in an out most of the day.

The funny thing is that most of these problems would be solved by less than 50 words from ED.

Same problem here too, the devices themselves are working, as I still get the print to user messages, but the dispatch action commands for gear flaps and airbrake must not be linking with the game.

When I use the g key to retract the gear the game doesn't respond either. Hope they fix this soon or we find out how to fix it ourselves.

The funny thing is that most of these problems would be solved by less than 50 words from ED.

or a copy/paste of the updated commands list.

Going back through LUAs to fix/Trouble shoot stuff every major patch takes time away from the 3d stuff I need to be doing.

the dispatch action commands for gear flaps and airbrake must not be linking with the game.

Here's the potential causes as I see it:

1) SFM functions for non-AI aircraft, such as flaps and airbrake, have been removed are are no longer/will no longer be available. This will force 3rd parties to work with EFM.

2) Those functions have been removed, and a new method has been created in their place.

3) Method of access for the same old functions has changed.

Here's the potential causes as I see it:

 

1) SFM functions for non-AI aircraft, such as flaps and airbrake, have been removed are are no longer/will no longer be available. This will force 3rd parties to work with EFM.

 

2) Those functions have been removed, and a new method has been created in their place.

 

3) Method of access for the same old functions has changed.

SFM keycommands, rules and methods are removed since months so no longer available. It's not belong to force only EFM but if you want to use a custom cockpit you have to declare your own gear, flaps and control surfaces usage due it's not belong anymore the "old FC2" way. So generally if you press for example 'G' the keycommands call the internal logic through iCommandxxxx. So all restriction is belong the internal pre-defined gear logic (retraction speeds, forces, up/down time)

This separation is really required because without that you can't use your own declarations for gears, flaps, etc... Also you have to cross-connect to your AFM and cockpit dll functions as well.

Thanks for the reply, Beczl! I'm not absolutely certain I understand you, however. I assumed you meant that the aforementioned SFM functions can still be accessed, but not in the same way as before.

For example, I use two joystick buttons I have defined for speedbrake extend and retract. Extend logic looks like this.

               if command == 10014 then		--Speedbrake Extend
		if speedbrake < 1 then
			speedbrake = speedbrake + 1
			if not track_is_reading() then
				dispatch_action(nil,147)
				spdbrkannun:set(1)
			end
		end
	end

So I take it you mean that dispatch_action() with an index of 147 will no longer work. If that's the case, what will work? I've got the means, I just need to know what the new commands are.

All dispatch_action() that belong the gears, flaps, control surfaces no longer work. We'll have a new method but unfortunately I can't share it due I'm under NDA. I just want to inform you about that situation so you don't waste time to try to find a solution. Should Alex give you an official info about that.

Thanks very, very much. You have indeed stopped me from wasting a lot of time on this one! Cheers, Beczl! :beer:

Well, at least we have some sort of comfirmation from the ED side of things. Now I guess we just wait for a solution.

So how come canopy command still works? Is this truelly just limited to gears, flaps, airbrakes, flight surfaces? Or there other parts that it effects as well?

I think the refueling probe has been affected since World was first released.

Tailhook as well.

Didn't seem to be so. It depends on how you approached it. I had the tailhook working, prior to 1.2.2. No use now.

Another casualty then ;) Hopefully we'll have a solution that will work soon.

SFM keycommands, rules and methods are removed since months so no longer  available. It's not belong to force only EFM but if you want to use a  custom cockpit you have to declare your own gear, flaps and control  surfaces usage due it's not belong anymore the "old FC2" way. So  generally if you press for example 'G' the keycommands call the internal  logic through iCommandxxxx. So all restriction is belong the internal  pre-defined gear logic (retraction speeds, forces, up/down time)

This separation is really required because without that you can't use  your own declarations for gears, flaps, etc... Also you have to  cross-connect to your AFM and cockpit dll functions as well.

All dispatch_action() that belong the gears, flaps, control surfaces no  longer work. We'll have a new method but unfortunately I can't share it  due I'm under NDA. I just want to inform you about that situation so you  don't waste time to try to find a solution. Should Alex give you an  official info about that.

Sorry Lazslo and ED if i understund my one month of code its.....:mad::mad: Im very disillusioned on this news for meand i think for all moders........ Ok guys we waiting 4 years if ED update DCS:W and all code and if we have more info then we can start create our module......Thank you very much!!!!

Sorry Lazslo and ED if i understund my one month of code its.....:mad::mad: Im very disillusioned on this news for meand i think for all moders........ Ok guys we waiting 4 years if ED update DCS:W and all code and if we have more info then we can start create our module......Thank you very much!!!!

Well you know I'm under NDA so I can't tell a lot of things to you. First of all the options to call external arguments through lua my point of view is a bit outdated due it's avilable since FC1 so this should be initiate the changes.

Also generally ED can change anything without saying a word that not effected the normal game play. Due you're not a licenced 3rd party devs they don't need to tell to you anything why did they change these things.

Generally most cases these changes can be performed by several reason, (security, system integrity, bugfixes) and as we mentioned several times we have a different workaround for AFM and cockpit things so these changes not effect our development because we have a different way to declare these functions.

So why did you want a support from ED side without you buy a 3rd party license? They don't want to provide support for free. Has an english phrase for this "No lunch for free".

I try help anybody as much as I can but most function didn't work outside the licenced 3rd party environment that's the reason why some questions never answered on the forum.

So why did you want a support from ED side without you buy a 3rd party license? They don't want to provide support for free. Has an english phrase for this "No lunch for free".

Beczl, thanks again for taking the time to interact with us. Let me start by saying I don't mean any of this in an angry or personal way. I don't want it to seem like I'm harassing ED, but I want to make my position clear.

3rd party licenses are bought now?

I will not be able to release the aircraft I'm working on. I'd like to think this does not mean I am not a potentially valuable asset to ED. My current project is my chance to experiment, learn, and practice skills I've been trying to develop since LOMAC 1.02. You could look at this as a bunch of talented and dedicated community modders that are once again rapidly becoming disillusioned with ED's desire to support community work. The best chance for some of the highest quality 3rd party projects will come from within the community... the people in this thread are the ones who will probably be creating them.

Call me naive, but I do believe this particular question would be answerable in minutes, if I am correctly interpreting the hints you have posted. (Thanks again, by the way.)

Of course, we're on the other side of the fence, but I can imagine no reason why publicly explaining this issue would cause security issues or devalue anyone's work. Nobody's asking for a free lunch... in fact quite the opposite. The groups and individuals that populate these threads are often people who are putting in unbelievable hard work in order to practice and learn technique without attempting to secure a 3rd party agreement under selfish pretenses. (I am, of course, not accusing anyone of doing so!)

I don't want to be the "squeaky wheel" here, and I certainly don't want to piss anyone off. I'm just quite invested in my work and (obviously) very passionate about it.

1.) You have to eligable some conditions to get a licence agreement but the conditions are not for public.

2.) All of my previous mod is created by my own mind without any help from ED. If I recognised some functions are not available for me I'll try to find an another way.

3.) If you can create and align your mod 100% for the current DCS environment it's not equal to can be use a week later due some changes can be occur DCS side and you don't have these infos so that effect your mod functions. As you can see the situation is changed since FC2. In FC2 we have a relatively simple and fix environment so we have much more time to develop a new mod for a community. But now it's changed a bit things happens faster, we have an autoupdater etc.... This happens all of my previous vehicle mod. DCS:World changed so all of these can't work well in DCS_World due it doesn't contain the new features that ED implemented meanwhile.

4.) I created many mods if CFS2, FS2002-2004 in a long time ago. It had a same situation. You can buy an official support and SDK for example ABACUS that buy a full SDK and support from Microsoft so you can create a better mod than other modders who don't want to buy these things.

Wow,

I understand several things now : Why my custom cockpit+model had to be changed each time a new patch went out.

As I take it, the only way to release a FREE mod is to use an ED's existing cockpit ?

Instead of discouraging me, it makes me want to reach/build a team and ask for a 3rd party developper license. I guess the 3rd party developper license price is under NDA too. Could we just have an idea of it ? Just to give me hope or let me know I'd better stop everything now ?

All of my previous mod is created by my own mind without any help from ED. If I recognised some functions are not available for me I'll try to find an another way.

Believe me, this is how I operate. I've been doing it for almost 5 years, for what that's worth. I'll leave the present discussion as it is, rather than further stir the pot.