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Old 05-22-2012, 08:20 AM   #1
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Default A Plea for View-Export/Multi-head/TH Users.

Several Design flaws, most of them can be easily reproduced in 1.1.2.1 when you use e.g. 1280x768 windowed and the"Camera+LMFCD(on right side)" monitor setting.

And I think this need special attention of the QA Team before a final release.
This because DCS:World hit the floor and (this is a wild guess) you are probably preparing a SDK for third-party developers.
And even if you match with the modules the highest standards - there could be some improvements to things you don't notice at a single-head setup. (Some things that are present since the first DCS release)
And I think you are now "grown up" enough for focusing on this!

Because I fear, when you don't change it Now (or pretty soon)- we will probably see leftovers of it in all upcoming modules....

So please read it as open letter to:
Quality Assurance
Valery "USSR_Rik" Khomenok - Lead Tester
Ivan "Frogfoot" Makarov - Testing
Sergey "Foreman" Gusakov - Testing
Michael "Yurcha" Urevich - Testing
Andrey "Andrey Andreevich" Kryutchenko - Localization

I tried to write this summary in a way that even my boss would understand what I'm talking of, but if something isn't quite clear - please don't hesitate to ask for further explanation.

1. When you use a smaller aspect-ratio than 1 you have missing Sea-textures:
Spoiler:








>>> More info and workaround for it: A-10c 1.1.1.1 water disappears
Edit:
...But, this workaround sadly triggers another bug....
>>> Shallow water doesn't match with coastline



2. When you have additional exports in the right top corner of your whole in-game render resolution you can't use the Communication-menu properly.
Same goes to the resources management window "rearm".

This is a very big issue - as it really makes it impossible to use the simulation as intended, as some windows won't be reachable when you have build yourself a pit.

This needs urgent attention.

Edit:
Partially fixed in 1.2.1 !! Thanks!

Spoiler:





Here are some files and a guide how to fully customize the position of the radio menu:
Click- and Customizable Radio Menu for DCS World

>>> More info and workarounds : moving the comms menu / Show mission resources management window / How to move the status bar?



Possible solution: Bind sub menus to the "UIMainView" - like it was done in 1.1.1.1 and/or to which view-port the user wants.



3. When you have your Center-view-port not in the same position/resolution as the whole in-game resolution the Sun-glare HDR effect doesn't match up with your In-game render,
It always covers the whole in-game resolution.


I made a "very high contrast version" of the same image to show you where sun-glare is placed:





>>> More info of it:HDR Sun Glare Missalignment Still persistent in 1.1.2.1

Possible solution: Bind HDR Sun effect to the Center-view-port and/or to which view-port the user wants.


This also influence the over-G/black-out visuals!



4. The NVG is stretched at the whole in-game resolution. Looks Odd when using Exports.
I can live with the stretching, but it should be centred at the center-view-port.


more info and a workaround:
>>>> http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.ph...58#post1558358

Possible solution: Bind The focus.png to the center-view-port and/or to which view-port the user wants and use a similar function like this to have the NVG always round in the right aspect:

width = screen.height;
height = screen.height;


Please have also a look at this: NVG-Mask for DCS World 1.2.1
Maybe you get this mod implemented into DCS.



5. Please Enable the "render_purpose.SCREENSPACE_OUTSIDE_COCKPIT," for all exports by default, and switch on the possibility to export them in the appropriate *_init.lua by default.
So Threads like this will have an end:
Exported all my A-10C displays in DCS World - mostly

And add this exports to the "MonitorSetup".Lua. - so newbies will have a better time.
BTW: this relates: Annotation in frequently user-changed Files

Here is a example how a possible "FIX" can look:
http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=71831
I can't see any reason why this shouldn't be done by default to all modules.


It has unique names for the exports - "ED_A10C_RIGHT_MFCD" instead only "RIGHT_MFCD". As this will get more and more a problem when we get new modules and use different "monitorSetup.lua's" for each module ore even combine them like described here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.ph...22#post1466722


Adding it and maintaining the unique export names for each module prevent us some headaches !

Edit: Easy Monitor Configurator makes manual edits obsolete and allows you to use only one Monitorsetup across different modules.


6. This is at a first glance a minor problem but when you use a great aspect ratio the terrain looks sometimes like a desert.
And is really a problem with stand-off weapons usage.



More info on this: DCS A-10C - How to increase districts visibility distance

Possible solution: Add a "Very High for high aspect e.g. Triplehead" view-distance setting - see attached modified "High.lua"
Attached Files High.lua


This relates: Any fix for massive lights? - ED Forums

Greater aspect ratio = bigger VASI/PAPI lights
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Smiley View Post
I dredged up this old post which nobody responded to because I too am suffering from these very hard to see VASI/PAPI lights on a 3 screen system. It is difficult to distinguish between the red and the white because the extremely large halo effect makes it all merge together.

I remember in FSX this was an issue too, and so somebody there made a replacement Halo texture to address this.

Any word on how to go about resolving this issue for Th2go/Eyefinitey/Surround users?

7. The sun is ridiculous big.
...
Edit : Fixed in 1.2.1
...but now the HDR effect is broken . you only see it when zoomed in unnaturally...
Spoiler:
And it gets worse when you using a higher resolution /aspect ratio.


More info on it: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.ph...40#post1461140


Again, IRL, the angular diameter of the sun (and moon) is ~0.5 degrees...


EDIT:

And here is a fix
for the gigantic Sun!
>>>>
http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.ph...62#post1526362


8.
Please don't take this as offend:
You advertised with fully TH-compatibility in the BS1 hard-copy.
(It had a coupon for a price-reduced TH2GO unit in it) - I bought a TH2G0 because of this....
>>>> http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/ad/gxm/th2go/blackshark2/



So please have a look at this too:Triple-head/Multi-Monitor GUI and NVG Fix
And I'm a little disappointed that I had to found this all out my-self.
-never mind- this was part of the fun for me, but:
Please don't make it so hard for upcoming customers that don't have the knowledge or time to dig through the forums!

Possible solution:
Add a TH-Setting to the "Monitors" drop-down menu, and ditch the misleading "Monitors" naming - Instead name it what it is: Simply "View-ports"
So threads like this will also have an end: "3 monitor" camera...
And don't forget to higher the Max FOV limit of each flyable to something like 140° - so it will be sufficient for a 3x16:9 set-up.


9. The whole Combined arms interface isn't usable at all when having Multi-monitors enabled.

Biggest problems are the Bino-View and the Map.


OK- some will say : "Just use a One monitor setting for CA!"

Thanks for the advise! but how about jumping between the A-10 and a commander seat?
Should I really put all my hardware in the trash-bin because of this...?!

Example:
Bino View with multi-screen Setup

Click> < Click

Map covering all monitors.

Workaround:

Only workaround up to now is to use SoftTH with DCS -

SoftTH has the function to draw all content that is spread among other screens at your main screen by using a hot-key : [AppKey+S]

So you can jump in a A-10 and spread everything like usual - and when you change to a commander position - you can bring everything at a single screen without much hassle.

Learn more in this thread: SoftTH NEWS


10. Please add something like this in your manual:
Dummies Guide for the “MonitorSetup.lua“

To make clear what this multi-monitor-thingy is all about in DCS.

Feel free to copy it as a whole or use portions and /or even edit it.

So not all upcoming customers will stand first clueless in the weeds as I did at the beginning of my journey on your train.







____________________
So ! Ich habe fertig!

Thanks for taking the time to read this and visit the links to gather further information/explanations !

Please don't do it because I cry out about it so loud... - I'm used to tweak files and stuff to get things working, nothing unusual for me - because I use MultiMonitors since many years....
- please do it for new customers , as today, it is nothing special any more to have more than one monitor at the desk.


... several people that use a single monitor moan about a "update dance" ...
...can you image what multi-monitor users have to do after a "update"?!


Some more nasty sentence:
If this is too much work...
Did you ever thought about a "per Monitor fee" ?!
I don't know how this should work - but I would gladly pay 2€ extra per view-port if I can make sure that it works in the end. - it would still be a barging compared to get the hardware to run this!

...sorry and never mind. Just trying to be funny...!

edit:

Maybe some of the devs get my wrong and they think that I ask for a entire fix for all of this !....

Hey I'm not nuts! - I know that this is impossible for all different kind of monitor settings ....

I'm just asking for something like a SDK that allows us to move the different GUI/post-processing items freely around and resize them on our render - so we just can make sure that it will look as nice at our home as in one of your advertisement videos on tube.


I hope you get my point.

---------------------------------------------
@all

If you have a issue that relates to this and you cant find it on my list: please PM me and I will add it to the list (to prevent cluttering) and/or post the links to it similar like I did With a small descriptions (keep in mind Pictures are more worth than thousand words) following this rule:

What is the problem?
(keep in mind: When it happens also on a single screen, it's not OUR problem! )
How does it look?
Where is the related discussion?
How do you think that it can be solved?
And how to reproduce it - when not obvious.

- I don't want to discuss everything in detail in this thread -again- as it has been discussed already before!
I just want to have a summary of things that have to be implemented for a easier use of DCS with
View-Export/Multi-head/TH Users.

Thanks!
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Last edited by PeterP; 03-20-2013 at 05:27 AM. Reason: Typos, lots of ; and still many more.
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Old 05-22-2012, 08:27 AM   #2
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+1 for all of what peterP has said

especially No.1 I use a dual screen 1280x1536 aspect ratio is 0.833333333 and the missing sea textures are annoying ( a two viewport camera solves this, but you loose some fps )
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Old 05-22-2012, 08:43 AM   #3
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Aye, +1 to all!
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Old 05-22-2012, 05:39 PM   #4
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Great post , Thx pete, pretty much on the money..
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Old 05-22-2012, 06:42 PM   #5
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Big +1!! There are many of us who have invested a lot of time, effort and money to have some really incredible immersion. Please make sure the features you've introduced that let both multi-monitor, touchscreen and full hardware pits work don't take steps backwards!
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Old 05-22-2012, 06:51 PM   #6
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+1
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Old 05-22-2012, 06:51 PM   #7
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Very good post, and good work. I don't use multiple viewports, but for the sake of those who do, please listen to this man.
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Old 05-22-2012, 09:55 PM   #8
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PeterP is an alarmist. None of this is a problem at all. Besides, it will grow on you after a while.

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Old 05-23-2012, 12:32 AM   #9
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As much as I love that video and I agree that DCS is amazing, I don't believe PeterP is an Alarmist and his intentions are only to improve this already amazing product, so...

+1 for all of PeterP's suggestions. Alot of people that pick-up DCS, may be coming from MSFS background where multi-monitor setups are easy-peasy. Sadly it's anything but easy with the DCS series, in it's current form.

Last edited by MackTheKnight; 05-23-2012 at 12:39 AM.
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:11 AM   #10
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+ 1
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