Inflight refueling

A last one for Flamin Squirrel: Amber seems to be the middle of the boom. That's where i concentrated on rather than the Green zone.

They are out by default. So I'm still none the wiser it would seem.

The A-10A flight manual states they should be pulled up to disable the filling of the relevant tank. If they are indeed out by default in the sim, it would appear that they are reversed. If that is the case, you should push them in to disable filling of the relevant tank for the time being. I'll flag this up to one of the other testers who will be in a position to check this and report it if necessary.

The A-10A flight manual states they should be pulled up to disable the filling of the relevant tank. If they are indeed out by default in the sim, it would appear that they are reversed. If that is the case, you should push them in to disable filling of the relevant tank for the time being. I'll flag this up to one of the other testers who will be in a position to check this and report it if necessary.

They're in by default. I don't touch them and can fairly regularly take on 2-4,000 lbs of fuel.

They are out by default which is the "don't fill" direction. They should be pressed in flush to allow filling the various tanks.

I found that there's no need to get into the advanced waypoint-triggered options to set radio frequency. The unit properties area is where you set the initial unit frequency. In the ME the KC-135 group defaults to 150.00 AM.

I've noted some oddities about the process:

1. PDLs come on before contact. Standard procedure is for PDLs to remain off until contact and then return to off on disconnect.
   
2. Boom goes "active" waaay too early before receiver properly stabilized in contact position.
   
3. Boom refuses to extend beyond 50% extension. The markings on the boom go red-yellow-green-yellow-red from full extension to minimum extension in reality.
   
4. Disconnects happen within 5 seconds of connect, even if really, really still well inside limits.
   
5. Tanker stops tanker task after first attempt or abort.
   
6. Fill Inhibit buttons default to the "don't fill" position.
   
7. Disconnect switch defaults to the "override" position.
   
8. Initial contact before a tanker waypoint means pre-contact report after the next waypoint cannot be done. Tanker "forgets what it was doing" over a waypoint.
   

A last one for Flamin Squirrel: Amber seems to be the middle of the boom. That's where i concentrated on rather than the Green zone.

Actually there is another amber and red above the green but by default it only comes out to the green when deployed. My advice connect a couple knots faster than the tanker (aim for 1) then play with the throttle to stay somewhere around the green and if you have to let it wander to the yellow. Don't aim to be in the red.

"Quickie"

If anyone has any thoughts as to why the boom operator disconnected me, I'd be grateful to hear them.

I ask because I don't think I'm way out of the boom limits, yet I get disconnected right away. (see attached track)

Thanks so much!

BrokenContact.trk

In "normal" disconnect mode the boom operator can disconnect you for nearing the physical limits or the rate at which you are approaching them. "Override" however should only be disconnected by the pilot or physical reasons.

I suspect plenty is going on wrong more than what we've seen so far. I suspect things like tanker only fuels you to what you started the mission with or tanker has no fuel to give. I have yet to see a video of someone taking fuel from 50% to full.

In "normal" disconnect mode the boom operator can disconnect you for nearing the physical limits or the rate at which you are approaching them. "Override" however should only be disconnected by the pilot or physical reasons.

 

I suspect plenty is going on wrong more than what we've seen so far. I suspect things like tanker only fuels you to what you started the mission with or tanker has no fuel to give. I have yet to see a video of someone taking fuel from 50% to full.

I've done it twice from under 40%. I was debating doing a video tut but haven't had a chance to investigate capture software. It is very precise. I had him disconnect me twice the other night I swear because I was in a bad mood.

FRAPS trial limits you in resolution and puts a watermark in the videos I think.

I know it's a pain but can you confirm the fill tank disable switches all "popped out" means you can't fill and "flush" means you can? I'm also curious if the "norm/override" switch is working but I can't think of a way to test that. Maybe ordering a disconnect over radio while taking fuel and seeing if the tanker can/cannot comply.

I'm thinking this is one of those things to leave until final release, to prevent further rage.

I used one of the missions made by a previous poster in this thread.

I believe the tanks are 30% at mission start. And after the tanker said disconnect, I had approx. 95%. I can try to do it again tomorrow and post the track.

I agree with Squirrel...

I think I'd better leave this alone until final release, or else I'll just keep trying to get it "right," instead of actually having fun and blowing things up :)

Boom refuses to extend beyond 50% extension. The markings on the boom go red-yellow-green-yellow-red from full extension to minimum extension in reality.

I expect that if it is modelled correctly it has to do with positioning. On the screenshot below the boom is extended into the orange part (I haven't yet dared to check the red part):

I have yet to see a video of someone taking fuel from 50% to full.

The below screenshot is from the same session where I started out with 20% fuel and ended with close to 100%:

When you are in pre-contact and the boom operator gets all ants-in-da-pants about flying the boom to the receptacle, does he extend beyond 50% in an attempt to connect?

I don't really have experience with post-connect travel as I'm only connected for a second at most so no time to extend anything.

When you are in pre-contact and the boom operator gets all ants-in-da-pants about flying the boom to the receptacle, does he extend beyond 50% in an attempt to connect?

 

I don't really have experience with post-connect travel as I'm only connected for a second at most so no time to extend anything.

He never has in my experience.

Does tietze have Beta1 perhaps?

Anyway, I tied it again at 25% joystick sensitivity. Still the same and I was so stable it wasn't even funny. It's got to be something in the setup.

Set the tanker for task refuel, going about 212 KIAS at 10,000'. Fuel door open, fill disable switches flush, disconnect on override. I walk up at about half a knot all nice and pretty. Connect.... You're taking fuel, disconnect. Last two happen nearly at the same time.

Hard to say whats happening without a screen shot, are you directly behind? how far out is the hose? what angle is the boom on? I notice that if I connect off set, or too close it doesnt stay connected too long, also how stable is your speed? you need to be very close to the target speed of the AC, and not have any sort of fast increase or decrease.

When you are in pre-contact and the boom operator gets all ants-in-da-pants about flying the boom to the receptacle, does he extend beyond 50% in an attempt to connect?

No, in pre-contact it just stays there at half way out in the green zone.

When the connection is established I think the up/down distance is really important. It should be shown by the indicator on the left side of the Stratotanker (indicating boom elevation), but I usually see it indicating U with a red arrow (post #55 above).

As the indicator is almost impossible(?) to see from the cockpit I'm having a hard time figuring out other visual cues that I can relate pitch adjustments to. On one occasion I have seen the indicator indicating something other than U:

I don't really have experience with post-connect travel as I'm only connected for a second at most so no time to extend anything.

I really have a lot of problems getting that as well - I just tried a couple of times and I can only do it when being lucky to hiy the right spot and using autopilot.

Here's a track. I've been smoother but it's more or less how my events go.

Correction: I'm cleared pre-contact and then as I'm moving to the contact position the boom operator flinches like he does. Sheesh. I know pre-contact he flies a centered, 30 deg down, 50% extension solid. I'm asking if he ever extends beyond 50% when attempting contact, cuz mine don't.

The U/D F/A indicators are supposed to be post-contact boom position and off until contact. However in DCS the PDLs come alive the second the boom operator flinches to attempt contact so there goes reality as a reference out the window already.

Just for fun info, the KC-135 is not capable of BRG type A/A TACAN beacon source, only DME mode.

The boom is safely capable of 20°-40° elevation and +/-10° traverse. That's a 14'x14'x12' box at 50% boom extension to stay inside, compare A-10 wingspan at 60'. It's not huge but it's not exactly tiny either.

Tank1.trk

Here's a track. I've been smoother but it's more or less how my events go.

 

Correction: I'm cleared pre-contact and then as I'm moving to the contact position the boom operator flinches like he does. Sheesh. I know pre-contact he flies a centered, 30 deg down, 50% extension solid. I'm asking if he ever extends beyond 50% when attempting contact, cuz mine don't.

 

The U/D F/A indicators are supposed to be post-contact boom position and off until contact. However in DCS the PDLs come alive the second the boom operator flinches to attempt contact so there goes reality as a reference out the window already.

Will have to wait until I get home to look at the track, but when he flinches, just stay put. He moves the boom in to connect, so all your wanting to do is get in close enough for him to achieve that, and stay on a dead steady vector, he does come back to you, well at least Texaco does, but I dont believe he extends past 50% until you've connected.

That's how it works in real life. You go from the pre-contact astern position to the contact position, stabilize, and the boomer flies the boom to the jet. Not so in DCS. Boomer comes alive way, way early, always outside his own ability to connect even if I was stabilized which I'm not because I'm still only half way to the contact position.

I could stay stabilized at my position when he flinches forever and he would never reach me. He should extend beyond 50% when attempting to contact, probably not to the red, but yellow band should be OK.

I just wish the boomer was coded smarter, staying out of the way until I actually get stabilized in a real contact position and then gently flying the boom to me, being more aggressive as a function of how close I am to dead center and how stable I am in my position.

Yeah see I just ignore him waving the boom around and get into a good spot. I use the AP to keep me basically stable.

Broadly I move from pre-connect to find a spot about 10ft below and line up with the boom/stripe centerline then just ease it in at about a 1 knot closure. Once Im in close he seems to pull the boom up and away and then move it back, the trick is to stay where you are with that closure and ignore it while he does his thing and plugs in then use the throttle and the tiniest bit of aileron to stay in place.

Here's a track. I've been smoother but it's more or less how my events go.

After having seen the track and drawing on my own emerging experiences I think you are aiming too high - try going in a bit lower so the boom gets a steeper angle and he will extend the boom over 50% if necessary.

As shown on my track I try to achieve this through:

• Lining up on the right side of the tanker trimming the aircraft for flying steady without stick input at the speed of the tanker.
  
• When in pre-contact I try to keep the dotted reticle between the wings of the boom before the boom-operator wakes up (reticle.jpg).
  
• When satisfied I engage the autopilot in alt/hdg mode.
  
• Move forward and begin the dance using small stick input and throttle.
  

As shu77 mentions above (#146) a steady hand is important - trim and autopilot helps me with that. As well as setting up a deadzone (appropriate for the axis) and a user-curve for the stick input, so the initial joystick input will be smooth (joystick-axis.jpg).

I don't think the indication on the right and left side of the Stratotanker is entirely precise. Take a look at those two pictures showing the boom completely extended and the right indicator not indicating the aircraft completely A(ft):

tietze-refueling-05.trk

I tried taking control during your track... OMG, so forgiving. I was all over the place and still locked on. Can you post your mission and I'll post mine? I'm curious if you have the same problems that I'm having in my mission. My biggest suspicion is about tanker speed.

Also I noticed all your fill disabled buttons were in the extended "inhibit" position.

Hey Fred just out of interest what Joystick/HOTAS are you using?

I'm working off an X-52 myself