Longbow 2 Fans tried this sim out?

Any loyal Longbow 2 Fans tried this sim out? Somone who actually likes realistic flight dynamics? I've looked at some of the videos, not sure what I think of it... Guess I have to wait till it comes out on Steam:joystick: Any word on a date for steam release?

BS has more realistic behaviour and more systems modelled with more detail. However it does miss A2A weapons (that should exist) and a campaign system similar to LB2, which is only found in Falcon 4 besides it. The lack of truly dynamic campaign has ever since LB2 (and F4) been my main grief with the games. The war just doesn't feel the same. Otherwise BS is the combat chopper simulation of the day. And I was too weak of a fool who couldn't resists getting the game with the cursed SF instead of waiting for the Steam version. Fortunately SF does not install drivers for this like it does with the CD/DVD version of games. On the other hand, Steam is ripping off us europeans by converting the price of a product from dollar to euro simply by changing the currency mark; $40 -> 40€ ($55), a rip off.

Any loyal Longbow 2 Fans tried this sim out? Somone who actually likes realistic flight dynamics? I've looked at some of the videos, not sure what I think of it... Guess I have to wait till it comes out on Steam:joystick: Any word on a date for steam release?

Yes ;)

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However it does miss A2A weapons (that should exist)

No, they should not. The only helicopter that deploys with AAMs that I know of is the Marine Cobra, and only on specific missions. Ka-50's do NOT equip AAMs.

What's with the stingers of apache, longbow and kiowa and iglas of Ka-50 then?

...iglas of Ka-50 then?

Eye-Candy

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2640833/Simply_the_best_Helicopter_sim.html#Post2640833

Here, he's a long-time LB2 fan.

Apaches and Kiowa's are cleared for those but do not equip them (I'm sure they would the moment the battlefield dictated so), and I'm not familiar with the testing status of Iglas for the Ka-50. Though proposed, they may or may not have been tested.

While fitting them would likely be 'easy enough' should the necessity arrive, fact of the matter is that these weapons, AFAIK, are not currently in the arsenal, assuming the Ka-50 is at all certified to carry them.

They're simply not used operationally.

What's with the stingers of apache, longbow and kiowa and iglas of Ka-50 then?

The only helicopter that deploys with AAMs that I know of is the Marine Cobra, and only on specific missions.

Mi-24s have also been known to carry R60s (AA-8 Aphid) at times. Most prominently after Mathias Rust landed a Cessna on the Red Square, and the Soviet Air Force realized that fighters were unsuitable for intercepting low, slow flying light aircraft.

Being a big fan of LB2, I think there is no other current title matching DCS:BS in terms of realism, weaponry and flight dynamics.

... The lack of truly dynamic campaign has ever since LB2 (and F4) been my main grief with the games. The war just doesn't feel the same. ...

That's so true. The continous dynamic campaign in F4 was truly awesome and you felt like a little piece in a huge puzzle. I actually thought that feature was ment to be implemented in the initial release of DCS.

..and Mathias Rust is one of my greatest aviation heroes of all time :pirate:

IIRC a hind pilot on the Russian forum said they experimented with this once and then gave it up.

MiG-29's did cessna interception just fine out of Cuba ...

Mi-24s have also been known to carry R60s (AA-8 Aphid) at times. Most prominently after Mathias Rust landed a Cessna on the Red Square, and the Soviet Air Force realized that fighters were unsuitable for intercepting low, slow flying light aircraft.

Dynamic Campaign cannot give us dynamic experience like in well-designed script campaign.

Good dynamic campaign is vaporware like good artificial intelligence.

So sterile and boring and cannot be achieved in current or near-future technology.

So someone think F4 campaign is good? oh my.. :doh:

After long experience in there.. it was meaningless repetition.

I just hope ED and talented users can provide good campaigns constantly, Although I'm just at mission No.3 in first campaign. :D

As a dynamic campaign is for sure cool i always asked myself:

 

"How much knows the actual pilot of the whole campaign in real life."

 

Wouldn't it be a security breach if he would "know it all" like in F4 for example?

Dynamic campaign doesn't mean you have to let the pilot to know what's going on all around the front. It means there's more dynamic elements to the war. Pilots do know where the frontline goes though, the safe area that is, which moves from time to time.

In dynamic campaigns I just love to see how the front lives and if I did anything to stop a breach of a fast moving group of tanks trying to encircle friendly positions.

The online experience in BS will rival any dynamic campaign in my opinion. With the right players, multiplayer IS as true to war as you can get...depending how to attack it.

It's cool having a virutal front line no doubt...but there's nothing more dynamic than a 4 ship formation of actual players attacking ground positions or protecting their armour against attacking KA-50's ;)

FUN!

The online experience in BS will rival any dynamic campaign in my opinion. With the right players, multiplayer IS as true to war as you can get...depending how to attack it.

 

It's cool having a virutal front line no doubt...but there's nothing more dynamic than a 4 ship formation of actual players attacking ground positions or protecting their armour against attacking KA-50's ;)

 

FUN!

QFT!

This sim put LB2 too shame in many respects. althoe the training in LB2 was better, its just not enough to call it any where near DCS:BS.

Regarding the A2A abilities of the Hokum, I have a good book (Modern battlefield warplanes) which asserts that the Ka-52 and the Ka-50sh (night-capable Hokum) can both carry the R-73 and the Igla. Not sure if this is correct, or how useful this is in RL, but I'd love to carry either/both in BS...

I'm a Longbow 2 fan and I purchased this as well... Totally awesome...

LB2 fan here aswell and BS is better every way (except perhaps that dynamic campaing).

Mig-77

I agre with you I think that DCS had to do the singel mission way due to not haveing a multy core support. would realy hurt having the whole map populated.

Dynamic Campaign cannot give us dynamic experience like in well-designed script campaign.

Good dynamic campaign is vaporware like good artificial intelligence.

So sterile and boring and cannot be achieved in current or near-future technology.

 

So someone think F4 campaign is good? oh my.. :doh:

After long experience in there.. it was meaningless repetition.

 

I just hope ED and talented users can provide good campaigns constantly, Although I'm just at mission No.3 in first campaign. :D

I always found F4's dynamic campaigns very interesting, esprcially with regard to seeing the battle unfold. You also feel more part of the battle as the day-night cycles occur and see how your previous missions have affected things.

One feature in the F4 campaign which not too many people know, is that one can order the ground units around like a wargame. So at its best you are playing a wargame, which you can enter in at any time and fight in the F16 - For me at least totally awesome.

Where scripted campaigns can shine, is when a strong story is scripted in. This is something that a dymamic campaign cannot reproduce, but other than this, I'd much prefer to be in a dynamic campaign than the script based ones. Its the flying into the unknown, never totally clued up as to how the mission will pan out. In scripted missions its a case of, 0700 there will be two migs coming in from the West, at 0715, an enemy formation will be crossing the river.... All very predictatible.

RobP

I'll crosspost a recent SimHQ post by Flexman (a former Black Shark tester) from the LB2 section:

There's a great deal behind the scenes with DCS that isn't obvious. It's now fairly simple to build the same missions from Longbow 2 using the new mission editor. Even so far as having the killer Mig spawn is you climb above 250ft. To test this I sat down and made a pretty good version of "Romper Stomper" (a personal fav) which I shall tidy up and make available.

 

I would encourage people not to enforce hardcore settings but allow all game modes and label options so players can choose for themseles how they want to play. It's just as fun to play online and complete missions with friends in game mode (and faster too) as it is in the non-game mode (not forgetting that this is a game of course), and all the various modes that make playing a bit easier. Jump in at the deep end and get frustrated, well that's your choice also but it's not necessary.

 

Mission files are easy to get into (rename them to .ZIP and unzip them), you'll find them as nice simple(cough) LUA data structures. With some effort it's possible to build a snapshot dynamic campaign very much in the style of LB2. Longbow 2 used hand placed nodes populated by static groups of units, nodes were populated according to previous mission results along a phase line (of which there were 4 objectives). As it stands now, a single player dynamic campaign system can be built as an external application using a similar method, hand placed nodes over towns, road junctions, bridges and valley entrances. Export the after action results into the external campaign generator for the next phase. I'm not sure what happens to after action reports in multi-player mode as clearly you will need to export a report to make dynamic online campaigns work. Dynamic campaigns or externally generated missions are possible right now (pkzip and a text editor required). Quite complex missions can be built too. It would be nice to have access callbacks to mission functions to enable more complex logic to be included but as it is, it's quite flexible, more so than Longbow 2.

 

The datalink system is a tad clunky to operate but works a treat, my experience in online flights last night were similar to flying LB2 co-op missions with SAM positions shared to all aircraft. This is how we flew a lot of Longbow 2, single crew ships across the four FARPS. And the DCS system gives us more, we can have 16 ship joint operations the future will enable multi-role operations.

 

The problem I've had to date with the majority of missions I've flown is they are too long to fly when they don't need to be. 20 mins of flight time only to be shot down or crash isn't a positive gaming experience, cut it down to 5 to 6 mins to the IP, whatever players are comfortable with, this is comperable to LB2 with its small theater size and immediate combat environment. Some of the Eagle Dynamics campaign missions offer this and it works well.

 

I think there's the odd bug in the editor, someone was saying there are objects still in the mission that don't show in the editor and can't be removed. I would suggest the above method of unpacking, editing and re-packing. Editors always have the odd bug (whistle).

 

Overall, this is the best helo sim experience I've had since Lb2, and in some ways better.

The only time a Ka-50 or Ka-52 has been shown with R-73's is as a mock-up.

This doesn't mean it hasn't been tested with them or that it can't carry them - but it does mean that if it isn't in the documentation that ED received from Kamov (KAMOV, HINT! ;) ) it isn't going to be in the DCS Black Shark.

Sidewinders have been test fired from Apaches and Cobras, and both are able too carry and launch them in theory, but only the Cobra does so in practice in very special occasions.

Apaches and Kiowas will instead use ATAS when required, as, AFAIK, they are cleared for those.

Along the same lines, the Ka-50 is plain unlikely to use R-73, but may use Iglas - it's not a matter of capability, you can slap a heater on and wire it in if you really want to - it's an upgrade - it's a matter of 'is it being done?' ... the answer currently is no.

DCS: Black Shark does not model the Ka-50Sh nor the Ka-52, either.

Regarding the A2A abilities of the Hokum, I have a good book (Modern battlefield warplanes) which asserts that the Ka-52 and the Ka-50sh (night-capable Hokum) can both carry the R-73 and the Igla. Not sure if this is correct, or how useful this is in RL, but I'd love to carry either/both in BS...