[urze]

In this thread I want to collect several questions (and my answers) I got the last months via PM and e-mail concerning the monitor setup I showed at the LLTM'08 and I have at home:



Be aware that this represent only my personal experience and I speak for my self.
This is no official tech support of Eagle Dynamics.
The Answers can only deployed on LockOn-FC ! I will not (and can't->NDA) answer any question about DCS-Black Shark until it is released (edit: I'm talking about the final western release). So please don't even try to ask me about DCS and multihead support -although I showed it with a early Beta.

I will try to answer every single question but keep in mind that i do this as hobby in my free time.
To help to keep this thread well arranged use first the search function on this or the SoftTh board
http://www.kegetys.net/forum/index.php?board=1.0
before asking a question.



Question:

Hi Urze,
My question is: your LLTM video is very nice

with the touchscreen, I'm thinking on some

similar. But I'll have only 2 screens, one must

be a 22" widescreen and one... Can I use a 17 or

19" 4:3 screen below the 22"? Will any VGA

handle this setup (a Radeon HD4850)? Will LOFC

and BS (if you have any idea) support that

custom resolution?

Thanks in advance and good work on your stuff!

Andy

Answer:

HI,
Thanks for your question.

As far as I know should every single Nvidia Graphic card solution support such function in in Windows XP. You have to take both monitors that are attached to the Card in Vertical Span mode (This function is not supported by Vista!)- I'm not talking about Dualview.
I can't really speak for ATI cause I have no card of this brand.
When it's configured in Windows your game should also list all resolutions that Windows supports.
I can run Lockon in 1600x2100 in this Vertical Span mode - but only with a trick: My touchsceen has a native resolution of 1024x768. Normally is the highest resolution in span mode determined by the highest resolution that is supported by both screens.
So under normal circumstances Windows/Nvidia would only allow a res of 1024x1536 (two times 1024x768 ). To be able to use the 1600x1050 of the upper screen I have to hook the Touchscreen up on a 5m VGA cable extension.
The trick is that Windows doesn't recognize the small monitor as 'Plug and Play' monitor anymore (!) it will be listed as Analog Monitor. And you can run Much more resolution modes on it - Higher ones than the native support of it - like 1600x1050 for instance.
(not every monitor does this - you have to try out!)

So I'm able to use the Highest resolution that my 22" monitor can support while I have also hooked up the smaller monitor below.
Instead Scaling the res of the 22" down to 1024x768 i scale the res on my 15" monitor up.

Please browse to this post for a clarification about the different screen sizes http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?...32&postcount=6.

Hope I could help you with this answer. -and If you don't mind I would like to release this 'conversation' on the DCS/Lockon forum in the Tech section - you are not the first that asked this .

[urze]

Question:

hello Urze, really like your latest softth setup.

great work on the configuration side, this is also my reason for contacting you.

i would like to rack your brains on a possible configuration in softth.

i have a 1280x720 projector.
and 3 19" monitors run by the th2go.

i would like to set them up with the projector on top, and the th2go down below, also with touch overlay on the centre screen of the th2go.

with your experience in this area, i am wondering if you think this combination would work.

i am unsure if the 1280 up top will match up with the 3840 res below.

i have sli 8800 ultra's so videocards options should not be a problem, thanks for looking.

answer:
As far as I know th2go doesn't support Span modes vertical/horizontal.
If you would like to have something similar you described in your post you have to go with SoftTh http://www.kegetys.net/SoftTH/ (and windowsXP).

There you could configure the Middle screens in span mode - See previous Question - and run the below side monitors together with a 'virtual' TV monitor (force TV-detection in the Nvidia control panel) in span mode.
But you need three graphic cards to do this.
The two Secondary Cards can be weaker model - the rendering is done alone by the primary card.

A example: A motherboard with built in graphics and only one PCI-E slot would be sufficient.
You only have to get a PCI card you could plug in a PCI slot. -Than you have three graphic cards with 6VGA outputs on your system.

Primary: Projector with with below Touchscreen in vertical span mode
1st and 2nd Secondary: 'Virtual' TV in vertical span mode with the right/left Sidescreen.

You can do it also without the 'Virtual-TVs' but your sidescreens will be terrible squeezed vertical - because SoftTh renders the whole image from up to down in the side screens. This trick cuts the image in the middle without the need to have Two more screens.
Insted of forcing TV-detection on you can of course use real TVs or monitors attached to your cards.

Here is a simple diagram for visualization:


And up to now ( 10-05-2008 ) I have no solution to get the upper left and right image together on the upper middle on. If you want the whole upper image you have to use three monitors/projectors.
(I'm working on getting three projectors right now- I think this is the ultimate configuration for a Virtual cockpit: Three touchscreen below around you while having a 160 degree Projection at top of it.)

Read this for more clarification about force 'TV-detection on' (taken from this thread: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=32237 )

I know that you are not able to have Spanned monitors in Vista but you could Try this (I don't now If it works on Vista but its possible on XP):
Take the right and the middle 22" on your primary card. Than Force TV detection on your secondary.(this will allow you to have a TV on your system without one connected.
Than assign the TV as primary monitor on your secondary card.
Set it on the same resolution like your right monitor.
Than 'clone' the TV Image on your 17'' monitor(atached as secondary monitor).
and change the resolution to something half as wide like the TV.
(yes It do not only sound like many try and errors in front of you...)

Than you should be able to move the 'virtual' TV image around in your 17'' monitor with the mouse. So seeing only 'cut-out' of the Image.

This should prevent you from a totally squeezed image on the left side.

If that doesn't work put the 17'' monitor in the middle and use an positive sideExtraWidth value in your SoftTH.cfg.

[urze]

Question:

When I play lockon1.12 with 3 monitors,I cant zoomout enough.I tried to change something in view.lua.but while the zoomout limmit is more than about 228,I can't zoomout continue without headup.

I wanna know how to zoomout more or how to increase the view angel of vertical.

Answer: (partly taken from this thread http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.ph...=triplehead2go)

1. Increase CameraViewAngleLimits numbers in \Config\View\view.lua.
2. If you use the TrackIR zoom, the default zoom angle will be the average of the first and second numbers of CameraViewAngleLimits. So, increase the first numbers, too.
3. If you don't use the TrackIR zoom, the default zoom angle can be set in \Config\View\snapviews.lua. See here for details.
4. Increase CameraAngleLimits numbers in \Config\View\server.lua.

Here an example:

cange these lines in the FC root->config-> view folder that you are able to zoom and look around properly in the cockpit:

view.lua:

server.lua:

A max view angel of 250 in the view.lua is more than sufficient for the most triplehead configurations. But keep in mind that I'm able to run LockOn in a max res of 6820px horizontal. (But this is not playable at a proper FPS anymore -I do it only for research and to take screen shots.)
So I have to use this high value in the view.lua sometimes.

[Highwayman-Ed]

Is there any way to mix and match resolutions?

Example:

I have 2 monitors that I wish to use. The primary is a 24" Widescreen and the secondary is a 15" regular monitor.

The widescreen uses 1920x1200@60 and the 15" uses 1024x768. I've been trying to configure the monitors so that they work in their native resolutions, but have not had any luck.

I'm using Windows Vista 64bit with a 1GB ATI 4870.

I've managed to get SoftTH working once with a dual screen set up by setting the right monitor to -1 in the config file and selecting one of the resolutions in Lock On that showed as "Dual Screen" but in lock on, it still splits the screen into 3 parts so all I saw was the left and centre sections. This also resulted in the 15" screens image being squashed.

[urze]

Сообщение от Highwayman-Ed

I've managed to get SoftTH working once with a dual screen set up by setting the right monitor to -1 in the config file and selecting one of the resolutions in Lock On that showed as "Dual Screen" but in lock on, it still splits the screen into 3 parts so all I saw was the left and centre sections. This also resulted in the 15" screens image being squashed.

Thats right, SoftTh is made for Tripplehead and not Dualhead configurations. - And you will loose thee third part of your view.

I have no simple solution to run different sized screens (in height) in their native resolution with matching images.(and I doubt that there is one outside)
But you can try out the crazy trick wit the TV detection and clone I described above.
But You will have still the border of the frames in the center of your HUD in LockOn/FPShooters etc.

Even when you run XP and have the span Monitors option available you could only run both Monitors in the same resolution and that leads always to the outcome that you will have the border of the screens in the center of your image when using only two screens.

Edit: Projectors are much more suitable for dualhead use. -no gap or border of the Monitors.

[urze]

Qestion:

Сообщение от hannibal

(...), i want to ask a question for the hardware freaks..

i dont think i am going back to the triple head, but what i want to do is the following..

http://64.34.169.161/cgi-bin/ifolio/...jpg&img=18&tt=

http://64.34.169.161/cgi-bin/ifolio/...pg&img=108&tt=

with 1x46"inch LCD, and 1x20"inch LCD,
i would like to display the simulator-game at 1080p on the 46"inch LCD...(easy)
but i want the 20"inch (...)...or even the basic flight indicators like HSI, ADI, Altimeter, etc... kinda like what they do on FSX...

is this possible, if so, how is it done?
note: i do have trackIR, if i move my head, sure it tracks the movement , to where the view changes relative to my head...(Happening on the 46"inch screen) ...BUT I DO NOT WANT no HEAD tracking input to affect what is view on the 20" LCD (which is displaying either MFD, Shkval, or gauges..)
(...)

Answer:
You can do it with the "Virtual Panel" from Mnemonic in LockOn-FC:
>>>http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.ph...=Virtual+Panel

[Rapier]

Hi Urze!

I'm new to this but I'm really intrigued by what you have here.

I would like to set up a 4 screen in this configuration:
....[]....
[][][]

The bottom three would act the eye level view with the single screen above showing the forward/up view.

I have a 32" HDTV for the center screen, two 22 in flat panels for the side screens and a 19 in for the forward up view. I was planning to use kegetys software to link them together.

Is that possible? What advice would you give?

Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

[urze]

Сообщение от Rapier

Hi Urze!

I'm new to this but I'm really intrigued by what you have here.

I would like to set up a 4 screen in this configuration:
....[]....
[][][]

The bottom three would act the eye level view with the single screen above showing the forward/up view.

I have a 32" HDTV for the center screen, two 22 in flat panels for the side screens and a 19 in for the forward up view. I was planning to use kegetys software to link them together.

Is that possible? What advice would you give?

Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

(@ kuky, found the thread!)

Hi Rapier,
its possibility in FC -please read posts above - all information is there!
When everything works- you only have to higher you view position (LOCFG can do it without editing the Lua files manually)

But it is a mystery to me why you want do something like this in FC instead of using the monitor for displaying the instruments....


...but I can't understand everything

Ah.. I maybe got it
you want to do it with BlackShark and not Flaming Cliffs. Right?!

-In this case you should read my first post again!

[RedBaron]

Hi, I'm new in here and read a little what's on this thread.

I have a situation which is not so straight forward and am looking for some help.

I got 2 x 17" CRT monitors (same brand but different models) and I wish to set a dual view on Lockon Flaming Cliffs, the problems start here. I am using Windows Vista Ultimate 32 bit, and I would like the monitors to be set as, Monitor 1, straight view, Monitor 2, right view. That's all I need, so like that I can watch the aircraft which is on my right, all the time.

I got an 8800 GT AMP! videocard ( AMP stands for overclocked from factory )

Is there a solution for this setting?

Thanks.

[urze]

Сообщение от RedBaron

Hi, I'm new in here and read a little what's on this thread.

I have a situation which is not so straight forward and am looking for some help.

I got 2 x 17" CRT monitors (same brand but different models) and I wish to set a dual view on Lockon Flaming Cliffs, the problems start here. I am using Windows Vista Ultimate 32 bit, and I would like the monitors to be set as, Monitor 1, straight view, Monitor 2, right view. That's all I need, so like that I can watch the aircraft which is on my right, all the time.

I got an 8800 GT AMP! videocard ( AMP stands for overclocked from factory )

Is there a solution for this setting?

Thanks.

I have no Vista ,but

You should be able to use SoftTh to do this.

Please make sure you connect your monitors on your card like I did:


Than
adjust your screens like this (Two options):
-also set AF and AA to application controlled and use the "performance" setting in your the GeForce control panel !

Two times 1280 x 1024 ...or....


two times 1024x768 ...it depends on what your monitors are able to.

-also set AF and AA to application controlled and use the "performance" setting in the GeForce control panel !


Than make sure that all SoftTh 1.07b files are in the FC root folder (mine:G:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\Lock On)

After you have done this copy this text in your softth.cfg:

;
; SoftTH configuration file
; by Kegetys <kegetys[ät]dnainternet.net>
;

[config]
; deviceIDLeft/right: Direct3D device ID's of left and right monitor, or 'auto' for automatic
; secondaryWidth/Height: Left & right monitor resolution, or 'auto' to use same as middle screen resolution
; secondaryRefresh: Refresh rate of left & right monitors, or 'auto' for automatic
; secondaryFormat: Secondary device image format, 'RGB32', 'RGB16' or 'YUV12'.
; antialiasing: Level of forced anti-aliasing
; anisotropic: Level of forced anisotropic filtering
; borderSize: Size in pixels of frame border between monitors that is discarded
; noHotkeys: Set to 1 to disable all hotkeys
deviceIDLeft=-1
deviceIDright=auto
secondaryWidth=auto
secondaryHeight=auto
secondaryRefresh=auto
secondaryFormat=RGB32
antialiasing=2
anisotropic=4
borderSize=50
sideExtraWidth=0
noHotkeys=0

[Direct3D]
; ** Advanced setting for Direct3D games **
; cylindicalCorretionAngle: Amount of cylindrical correction done, use with sideExtraWidth
; hideNondefaultDevices: Hides all but the default adapter from the game
; forceHorizontalFOV: Forces horizontal FOV to be three times as wide
; forceResolutionWidth/Height: Forces device to be created with this resolution
; force16bitDepth: Force game to use 16bit depth buffer, can improve performance and reduce memory use
; sleepBeforeRead: Time in ms to sleep before reading back buffer data from video card
; useMultihead: Uses multihead features of primary card if available, can increase performance and reduce memory use
;               Set to 2 to force multihead initialization even if game doesn't create device with TH resolution
; delayedPresent: When useMultihead enabled, delay primary monitor present to sync with secondary head
; swapOrder: Swap order at which the frame contents are copied
; autoSquash: Automatically squash output to middle monitor if only pretransformed (GUI) elements are drawn
; d3d8dll: Path to D3D8.dll/D3D9.dll to use or auto for automatic (system32 dir)
cylindicalCorretionAngle=0
hideNondefaultDevices=1
forceHorizontalFOV=0
forceResolutionWidth=0
forceResolutionHeight=0
force16bitDepth=0
sleepBeforeRead=2
useMultihead=1
delayedPresent=1
swapOrder=0
autoSquash=0
d3d8dll=auto

[hooks]
; Win32 API hooking settings - Used for some extra compatibility and game-specific fixes
; doHooking: Enable/disable hooks in Direct3D, with OpenGL hooks are always enabled
; doScaleMouseCoordinates: Scale mouse coordinates for getCursorPos to fix games which do not handle negative screen coordinates properly
; doScaleFromLeftScreen: Spread out mouse coordinates from left screen to full width
; doScaleWindowRects: Scale game window rectangle to triplehead size
; mouseXoffset: Number of pixels to offset mouse cursor position in X axis, to fix misplaced cursor due to negative screen coordinates. auto = use X resolution
doHooking=1
doScaleMouseCoordinates=0
doScaleFromLeftScreen=0
doScaleWindowRects=0
mouseXoffset=auto

; Triplehead screenmodes to add to resolutions list (width multiplied by 3 and border added)
; Must be last in this file
[modes]
640x480x60
640x480x75
640x480x85
800x600x60
800x600x75
800x600x85
1024x768x60
1024x768x75
1024x768x85
1280x960x60
1280x960x75
1280x960x85
1280x1024x60
1280x1024x75
1280x1024x85
1600x1200x60
1600x1200x75
1600x1200x85

Next step is to edit your graphics.cfg.

Use this If you are using the two times 1024x768 res:

DisplayMode
{
    resolution = {1024, 768};
    bpp = 32;
    fullscreen = 1;
    aspect = 3.847;
    Interface
    {
        resolution = {1024, 768};
        bpp = 32;
        fullscreen = 1;
        aspect = 3.847;
    }
    Simulation
    {
        resolution = {3172, 768};
        bpp = 32;
        fullscreen = 1;
        aspect = 3.847;

And this if you are using the two times 1280x1024 res:

DisplayMode
{
    resolution = {1024, 768};
    bpp = 32;
    fullscreen = 1;
    aspect = 3.847;
    Interface
    {
        resolution = {1024, 768};
        bpp = 32;
        fullscreen = 1;
        aspect = 3.847;
    }
    Simulation
    {
        resolution = {3940, 1024};
        bpp = 32;
        fullscreen = 1;
        aspect = 3.847;

And finally - for more convenience in the cockpit - change these values in these two files in the \Lock On\Config\View folder

view.lua

-- Camera view angle limits {view angle min, view angle max}.
CameraViewAngleLimits = {}
CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_27] = {20.0, 250.0}
CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_33] = {20.0, 250.0}
CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_25] = {20.0, 250.0}
CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_39] = {20.0, 250.0}
CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iMiG_29] = {20.0, 250.0}
CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iMiG_29K] = {20.0, 250.0}
CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iA_10] = {20.0, 250.0}
CameraViewAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iF_15] = {20.0, 250.0}

server.lua

-- Camera angle limits {horizontal angle max, vertical angle min, vertical angle max}
CameraAngleLimits = {}
CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_27] = {200.0, -120.0, 90.0}
CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_33] = {200.0, -120.0, 90.0}
CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_25] = {200.0, -120.0, 90.0}
CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iSu_39] = {200.0, -120.0, 90.0}
CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iMiG_29] = {200.0, -120.0, 90.0}
CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iMiG_29K] = {200.0, -120.0, 90.0}
CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iA_10] = {200.0, -120.0, 90.0}
CameraAngleLimits[PlaneIndex.iF_15] = {200.0, -120.0, 90.0}

After you hit quickstart you should see hopefully something like this(and hopefully not also so blurred like my pictures ):




Attention !:
I added already a "borderSize" of 50 to the softth and graphics cfg.
This will help you to merge or reduce non-alignment of the rendered picture between your screens.
In clear words: 50 horizontal pixel are missing at the edges!

And I added anisotropic filtering of 4
and also a antialiasing of 2
to the softth.cfg !

Your card should handle this - even at higher res than two times 1280x1024 !
If you have problems reduce first the "secondaryFormat=" from RGB32 to RGB16 (My system crashes at YUV12!!) -
If that dident help try lowering water and so on ... in FC.
Keep in mind that Your card is already rendering the missing left screen - but "She" doesn't know where to put the data... ...and please don't ask me how to use the GUI after you returned from you mission.

A hint: get a another(weaker) card and a third screen!

Now Enjoy watching your wingman to the right!