Hummingbird Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Thought it would be interesting to have a thread discussing the stealth capabilitles of the PAK FA. To me this doesn't promise well for it: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummingbird Posted March 9, 2016 Author Share Posted March 9, 2016 F-22 & F-35 intake for comparison: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotasso Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 To be fair the current prototypes are not using the final engines with the radar blockers yet. It's too early and the Russians are facing other bigger issues and challenges to get it to production. [sigpic]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic4448_29.gif[/sigpic] My PC specs below:Case: Corsair 400C PSU: SEASONIC SS-760XP2 760W Platinum CPU: AMD RYZEN 3900X (12C/24T) RAM: 32 GB 4266Mhz (two 2x8 kits) of trident Z RGB @3600Mhz CL 14 CR=1T MOBO: ASUS CROSSHAIR HERO VI AM4 GFX: GTX 1080Ti MSI Gaming X Cooler: NXZT Kraken X62 280mm AIO Storage: Samsung 960 EVO 1TB M.2+6GB WD 6Gb red HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog + CH pro pedals Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS AD27QD Freesync HDR400 1440P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummingbird Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 The engine intake ducts definitely need a redesign if they want it to be as stealthy as advertised, I believe "the size of a tennis ball" was mentioned? The challenge is doing it without losing too much thrust in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent90 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 As Pilotasso has mentioned: There is no way to tell how stealthy it is based on these prototypes. It has placeholder engines with open intakes and exhausts, we have no clue how advanced the stealth coating is (which is a very important part of reducing the rcs) and the dodgy panel fit of recent pictures make it as visible as a whale on radar. It also shows that current flight tests aren't there to check if the stealth calculations and estimations are correct, it points to a more basic part of flight testing: getting all the parts to work together ;) Comparing it to the F-22 and F-35 is useless as well. It was designed to be a different approach of affordability, manoeuvrability and stealth, more in line with the YF-23 and Eurocanards. There is just no way we can guess the stealth capabilities based on pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exorcet Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 more in line with the YF-23 and Eurocanards. I would consider the 23 more in line with the 22 than the Euro's. What did you mean by this? Also, not up to date on the T-50. I know engine upgrades are planned, but I thought they were more a long term thing than short term? I'm not that knowledgeable on stealth technology, but I wonder if 3D TVC will be used to offset some of the shaping disadvantages (if any) of the T-50. I've heard some complains about the adjustable LERX, but I don't see why it couldn't be locked in place for stealth. Awaiting: DCS F-15C Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ФрогФут Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 The engine intake ducts definitely need a redesign if they want it to be as stealthy as advertised, I believe "the size of a tennis ball" was mentioned? The challenge is doing it without losing too much thrust in the process. It never was advertised like that. To be fair the current prototypes are not using the final engines with the radar blockers yet. It's too early and the Russians are facing other bigger issues and challenges to get it to production. These are final stage one engines. And radar blocker will just eat engine power. "Я ошеломлён, но думаю об этом другими словами", - некий гражданин Ноет котик, ноет кротик, Ноет в небе самолетик, Ноют клумбы и кусты - Ноют все. Поной и ты. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probad Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) were there ever plans for hiding the compressor in the pakfa? changing the airflow to the engine isn't something you can simply tack on, not simply because of the airflow but also because serpentine ducts would represent a radical relocation of internal structure. the us aircraft were designed from the get-go to have their engine locations offset from the intakes to allow for compressor occlusion without dramatically affecting airflow. considering both inboard and outboard of the engine pods cannot be expanded without changing rcs and aerodynamics, not to mention they are occupied by the internal weapon stations, the pakfa would literally need baffles to obscure the compressor from view. i was thinking something like a f-117 ram mesh but i found this from concerns about pakfa engine face back in 2012: http://paralay.com/pakfa/t50%20%2852%29.jpg Edited March 10, 2016 by probad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOLA Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 The engine intake ducts definitely need a redesign if they want it to be as stealthy as advertised, I believe "the size of a tennis ball" was mentioned? The challenge is doing it without losing too much thrust in the process. 1: Your picture is showing T-50-1. Compare stealth between F-35 and X-35. 2: Russians didn't go the full S-intake route for many obvious reasons. It isn't the only solution around to avoid RCS from engineface. 3: It will use radar blocker, which shockingly, T-50-1 doesn't have. 4: All this is available on the internet with minimal research. 5: Russians are not retarded, they are fully aware what S-intake is. Su-47 had them and guess what, they didnt forget about it since then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solty Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 To me Pakfa is still more of a 4.5Gen than 5Gen. It seems on par with the likes of Eurofighter and Rafale. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies. My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS. My channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyAXX9rAX_Sqdc0IKJuv6dA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ФрогФут Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) 1: Your picture is showing T-50-1. Compare stealth between F-35 and X-35. 2: Russians didn't go the full S-intake route for many obvious reasons. It isn't the only solution around to avoid RCS from engineface. 3: It will use radar blocker, which shockingly, T-50-1 doesn't have. 4: All this is available on the internet with minimal research. 5: Russians are not retarded, they are fully aware what S-intake is. Su-47 had them and guess what, they didnt forget about it since then. 3. A) What is the purpose of goint to flight test, if whatever characteristics you get won't represent the real result? B) What is the purpose of radar blocker, if you have intake ramp in front of it? Edited March 10, 2016 by ФрогФут "Я ошеломлён, но думаю об этом другими словами", - некий гражданин Ноет котик, ноет кротик, Ноет в небе самолетик, Ноют клумбы и кусты - Ноют все. Поной и ты. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummingbird Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 It never was advertised like that. Are you sure? My comment was based on this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boberro Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 This plane is not dead yet? I've heard India ran away some time ago leaving Russia with flying shape. Reminder: Fighter pilots make movies. Bomber pilots make... HISTORY! :D | Also to be remembered: FRENCH TANKS HAVE ONE GEAR FORWARD AND FIVE BACKWARD :D ಠ_ಠ ツ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ФрогФут Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Are you sure? My comment was based on this: It also states, that the intakes are S-shaped.:) "Я ошеломлён, но думаю об этом другими словами", - некий гражданин Ноет котик, ноет кротик, Ноет в небе самолетик, Ноют клумбы и кусты - Ноют все. Поной и ты. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummingbird Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 It also states, that the intakes are S-shaped.:) Yeah, so they infact falsely advertised on two accounts :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkateZilla Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 A small reflector cover like ones used in the F-18E/F/G would fix the intake design problem. Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2), ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9) 3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummingbird Posted March 10, 2016 Author Share Posted March 10, 2016 Been researching this abit and we're probably looking at a blocker and not the actual fan blades of the engine itself. The F/A-18E features a similar radar blocking fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoflSeal Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 Yeah, that picture in the OP looks like a blocker not the fan itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook47 Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) I would agree, we have little idea what we are looking at, but that may be the blocker. I also agree that the Russians aren't stupid. They use a different approach to problems than the USA, and don't have the luxury of throwing trillions of dollars at a problem until it goes away. Having a different or even simpler approach doesn't make them wrong, just different. The Russians have made some amazing aircraft with that line of thinking. Either way it's kind of interesting to me that one particular authority in the U.S. aviation field thinks the whole stealth thing is kind of a joke anyway. I guess only time will tell how important it really will be in future warfare. My bet is better sensor, SA due to battle space technology, and weapons will surpass stealth ability (if they haven't already) Edited March 10, 2016 by Hook47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helikopter Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 More advanced Stealth technology = more advanced radars & sensors. Skickat från min D5803 via Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probad Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) stealth will become standard for aircraft much like how armies eventually abandoned the colorful garbs of napoleonic warfare in favor of camo fatigues. the future of aerial camouflage is likely to become more comprehensive and in depth. any driving factor for abandoning stealth would not be enemy detection capabilities but rather the cost of operating air assets, which is not likely to drop as much as the cost of stealth technology. Edited March 10, 2016 by probad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiJack Posted March 10, 2016 Share Posted March 10, 2016 More advanced Stealth technology = more advanced radars & sensors. Skickat från min D5803 via Tapatalk = Bigger antennas = Fixed installations = Easy targets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krippz Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 The aircraft is still in development. Compare the YF-22 and the X-35 to what we have today. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 64th "Scorpions" Aggressor Squadron Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron TS: 195.201.110.22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ФрогФут Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 Been researching this abit and we're probably looking at a blocker and not the actual fan blades of the engine itself. The F/A-18E features a similar radar blocking fan. That's the first stage of low pressure compressor. "Я ошеломлён, но думаю об этом другими словами", - некий гражданин Ноет котик, ноет кротик, Ноет в небе самолетик, Ноют клумбы и кусты - Ноют все. Поной и ты. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkateZilla Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 (edited) I can neither confirm nor deny that, but here's the F-18's radar blocking fan for comparison: Arent pictures of the F-18Es intake prohibited by the Military? Coulda sworn personel were not allowed to take pictures of the SHs intake, let alone post online. Edited March 11, 2016 by SkateZilla Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2), ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9) 3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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