Got shot down by...something.

So I've been teaching myself to use to the A-10C (after being used to flying the F-15C almost exclusively since the days of LOMAC or whenever we first got to use the F-15) and its been going fairly well.

Got proficient with weapons so I decided to start actually engaging against targets that fire back in an actual mission. So I loaded up the Smerch Hunt mission. After a first rather dumb attempt (I had neglected to learn how JTAC and getting on target using the call outs works so I had to back out to read the manual and get that put together) I flew up again, this time without a wingman (mostly because during my first run the AI just wouldn't meet up no matter how I flew or how many times I told him to).

Got fairly far until I had to go attack another target a almost on the opposite side of the AO. Simple enough, but then as I'm cruising around 10-12k fine tuning my TGP onto the target, all of a sudden my engines explode and I lose power. Luckily though I was still close enough to home that I was able to glide my way back on the APU. Right when I touched down the game crashed on me, so, no track :/

But any way, what could of hit me? There wasn't any warning and while I think if I had my wingman on me he probably would have called it out, but even so. At the altitude I was flying at I didn't expect to get hit by anything that I wouldn't at least get a warning about.

Also, just another general question for those of you without rudder pedals, what do you use for a substitute? I've been mapping my rudders to the left and right trim swtich on my HOTAS stick (with a lever modifier setup for roll trim, as I seldom need roll trim on the fly and more often than not I hit roll trim by accident anyway) but its been iffy because it makes takeoff not as smooth as I'd like, as I end up swerving a bit as I roll.

Golden BB ... lot's of those flying around in DCS.

If your RWR didn't show anything I don't know either. Were you 10-12K AGL or MSL? Were you flying through a valley between ridges or mountain peaks? Some lucky small arms fire could have gotten you.

I fly with rudder pedals so I can't be of much help. Does your stick not have a twist axis?

Tacview is your friend! Highly recommend it. Totally worth the cost!

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My guess is a Tunguska, I think it's the SA-15.

So I've been teaching myself to use to the A-10C (after being used to flying the F-15C almost exclusively since the days of LOMAC or whenever we first got to use the F-15) and its been going fairly well.

 

Got proficient with weapons so I decided to start actually engaging against targets that fire back in an actual mission. So I loaded up the Smerch Hunt mission. After a first rather dumb attempt (I had neglected to learn how JTAC and getting on target using the call outs works so I had to back out to read the manual and get that put together) I flew up again, this time without a wingman (mostly because during my first run the AI just wouldn't meet up no matter how I flew or how many times I told him to).

 

Got fairly far until I had to go attack another target a almost on the opposite side of the AO. Simple enough, but then as I'm cruising around 10-12k fine tuning my TGP onto the target, all of a sudden my engines explode and I lose power. Luckily though I was still close enough to home that I was able to glide my way back on the APU. Right when I touched down the game crashed on me, so, no track :/

 

But any way, what could of hit me? There wasn't any warning and while I think if I had my wingman on me he probably would have called it out, but even so. At the altitude I was flying at I didn't expect to get hit by anything that I wouldn't at least get a warning about.

 

 

Also, just another general question for those of you without rudder pedals, what do you use for a substitute? I've been mapping my rudders to the left and right trim swtich on my HOTAS stick (with a lever modifier setup for roll trim, as I seldom need roll trim on the fly and more often than not I hit roll trim by accident anyway) but its been iffy because it makes takeoff not as smooth as I'd like, as I end up swerving a bit as I roll.

I use a twisty stick for rudder. Surprised that your HOTAS doesn't have that feature.

As for the thing that smote you from the sky, I suspect you ran into an optically aimed AA gun. The ZU-23-2 (A mounting with dual 23mm guns, typically seen either in an emplacement or on the back of a flatbed truck) is the most common example- it has a range of around 2500m (7500ft), so you may have been in range depending on the height of the terrain above sea level. The other contender is one of the russian APCs that carries the 2A42 30mm cannon, for example the BMP-2 or BMP-3. These guys are surprisingly accurate against fast flying aircraft and have a range of 4000m (12000ft), putting you well within range if you flew directly over the top of them. They only have a fire rate of 500 rounds per minute, but a group of them can get enough shells in the sky to reliably score hits.

Hmm strange. When it happened I looked back (because duh) and there was a pretty big explosion which leads me to believe I took a missile hit. As I've been running this mission more I have taken hits from guns and so far I haven't been hit as bad as I was the first time.

Do have a bit of a weird thing going on in my current run however. RTB for a repair, and now my hud ladder is crooked like I'm banking even though I'm on the ground. Ran the preflight bit a couple times now and it isn't doing anything. No caution lights on my panel either.

On smerch hunt, after completing the taskings from the first JTAC, you receive a tasking from the CAOC to destroy a smerch that is 20+ miles from the first JTAC. The smerch lies right on the outskirts of a town (can't remember what), and is guarded by Igla MANPADS. I've conducted tests, and 13,000 feet AGL seems to be the magic altitude to stay above an Igla, assuming your altimeter is set correctly and you are subtracting the ground elevation from your indicated altitude to equal AGL altitude. 15,000 feet for SA-13.

Your MWS will sometimes not detect things shot from directly below. If you were flying right at the top of the Igla's envelope, then it's very possible this is what happened.

On smerch hunt, after completing the taskings from the first JTAC, you receive a tasking from the CAOC to destroy a smerch that is 20+ miles from the first JTAC. The smerch lies right on the outskirts of a town (can't remember what), and is guarded by Igla MANPADS. I've conducted tests, and 13,000 feet AGL seems to be the magic altitude to stay above, assuming your altimeter is set correctly and you are subtracting the ground elevation from your indicated altitude to equal AGL altitude. 15,000 feet for SA-13.

 

Your MWS will sometimes not detect things shot from directly below. If you were flying right at the top of the Igla's envelope, then it's very possible this is what happened.

Indeed this was the case as my wingman just got shot down in the same way. And I decided to just climb to 17000 and stay there for the second Smerch. Now that I'm aware there's AA almost everywhere in this mission I'm much more mindful of how I fly, so we're getting there.

Also, bout the rudders, I have the TM Warthog HOTAS. So, no twisty stick. :joystick:

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It helped me a lot with analyzing why I've been shot down :D

^ I'll have to look into it. Certainly sounds interesting.

Do have another question that I may as well ask. How do you guys deal with CAOC, or rather any communications with people on the ground?

During this particular mission I get two calls from spotters on the ground and because the calls almost come right on top of one another I never get a chance to save more than one of the targets as a MP. And thats after I mapped my keyboard to the CDU so I can just type as they talk.

I can't imagine it'll matter much in online play, but for single that is definitely something annoying that's been bugging me.

Course, could also be that the mission has just been bugged for me and I am actually able to contact CAOC somehow.

The CAOC is a headquarters element, sitting at some base, in a large room with a bunch of computers and TV screens. They manage the taskings of all the air players, and will contact you seemingly at random with information, often target information.

The JTAC is a guy on the ground, usually embedded with a front line force, such as armor, mech, infantry of SOF. Usually they won't talk to you unless you check in with them first. Some mission designs may include triggers that prompt them to talk to you and pass you targets without you formally checking in with them.

As a general rule I avoid checking in with more than one JTAC at a time. The information gets confusing, and it may not be possible to monitor both frequencies at once.

Only bits of advise I can give is to work with only one JTAC at once. If someone else passes you information, have a pen ready to write it down.

Since sometimes JTAC or AWACS calls are delayed due to the traffic, one technique is to turn off "Allied flight reports" in the settings. You will miss out on AWACS calls (unless you ask?) and you wont hear things like "Colt 11, passing waypoint 4 at 15000".

^ Writing it down seemed to do the trick. So strange you can't contact CAOC though. JTAC is easy because you always call them up for tasking.

But anyways, more questions!

Whats the effective ranges for all the different Mav's for an actual lock on (IE, not force correlate)? I've been experimenting with the different missiles and for an actual track it seems like every one of them won't track until I'm within 8nm or so, and even then I have to sit there and play with it to get it to track so I can fire the missile.

The manual says the effective range for what I imagine to be all of the MAV's because it isn't specific goes up to 17nm, and while I've managed 12nm with force correlate it doesn't really help much unless I'm hitting a static target.

As far as locking it goes I know to get my nose on the target and even when I have the MAV's LOS marker right on the target I still can't lock regardless until I'm within that range, and then I have to sit there and constantly hit up TMS short and long until it locks. Sometimes I have to slew the MAV and re-slave it to the SPI. Either I'm missing a step or the MAV's are seemingly tedious to use.

^ Writing it down seemed to do the trick. So strange you can't contact CAOC though. JTAC is easy because you always call them up for tasking.

The JTAC is part of DCS.

CAOC is "just" a bunch of voice-overs (recorded by ED producer Matt Wagner if I recall correctly) included in this particular mission that play when you reach certain stages, so that's why there's no 2-way communication with CAOC.

You'll see that a lot in missions. It's theoretically possible to record lots of voice-overs and give the player the option to contact such assets via the F10 radio menu, but even a simple dialog could branch into dozens of different voice-overs, that's why it's mostly 1-way comms (and even simple voice-overs take quite some time to record, edit, and add into the mission).

Whats the effective ranges for all the different Mav's for an actual lock on (IE, not force correlate)?

I don't know the exact numbers, but somewhere between 6 and 8 nm should give you a lock with all Mavs.

As far as I know, these numbers are actually quite realistic, whereas DCS' force correlate is not, meaning that force correlate allows us to lock at ranges significantly higher than in real life.