order of firing from guns

I am intrigued after so much time in the 51 to ask: what is the sequence of barrels shooting. It seems that some barrels fire before other barrels for a split second. Or maybe it is the visual effects. Are all the guns synchronised to the tit?

I think they all shoot at the same time. It's just the tracers not being synced. Also, not every gun on the 51 has the same amount of ammo so it might be you ran out of ammo one some guns.

In the real thing, there's no synchronization. Minute discrepancies during manufacturing means that the guns have slightly different RoF, even off the same assembly line. The variation can be fairly dramatic, though it's usually slight. The result is that the guns don't fire together; this is actually beneficial, as it creates a constant stream of lead that a target can't "fly through" when the shooting aircraft is turning at a high rate.

If the guns fired in synch, then at high turn rates, the "bullet packets" could "go around" an enemy aircraft with none of the bullets hitting. This happened in old IL-2 when Mr. Maddox "ninja-nerfed" the Browning M2 via this unrealistic synchronization.

Ha

:megalol:

:lol::thumbup:

Now I'm intrigued to know what other "This forum has gone 0 days without..." signs Sithspawn has:P

One certainly has to be the "190 cockpit bar":P

Sry Sith, but I fear this thread will turn into an incarnation of "the game"... which you guys just lost btw:)

In the real thing, there's no synchronization. Minute discrepancies during manufacturing means that the guns have slightly different RoF, even off the same assembly line. The variation can be fairly dramatic, though it's usually slight. The result is that the guns don't fire together; this is actually beneficial, as it creates a constant stream of lead that a target can't "fly through" when the shooting aircraft is turning at a high rate.

 

If the guns fired in synch, then at high turn rates, the "bullet packets" could "go around" an enemy aircraft with none of the bullets hitting. This happened in old IL-2 when Mr. Maddox "ninja-nerfed" the Browning M2 via this unrealistic synchronization.

From what I've read, different ammunition is also fired at different rates- heavier rounds refire more slowly as the springs have to overcome more inertia.

Oh ok... It makes sense this way... Sorry to have brought up an old issue.

Something that I doubt most of you realize is that the .50 has to have the headspace and timing set and checked often by a crew member. There is a certain amount of play that still qualifies as a "go" on the go/no go gauges. That means that some guns may fire a bit faster and some a bit slower.

I doubt that is modeled into the weapons here...

Something that I doubt most of you realize is that the .50 has to have the headspace and timing set and checked often by a crew member. There is a certain amount of play that still qualifies as a "go" on the go/no go gauges. That means that some guns may fire a bit faster and some a bit slower.

 

I doubt that is modeled into the weapons here...

I do not know if it is modeled but this is absolutely correct!

Obviously, you have worked with the .50 cal! :thumbup:

I would like to have realistic use of our guns instead of the "spray and pray" method of holding the trigger down you so often see.

Notice the guns are fired in very short burst's or 2-3 seconds on the M2 Aerial Weapon.

Having to use short controlled burst is a characteristics of open bolt single barrel automatic weapons and not just the .50 cal.

[nod] Realistic gun jamming is one of the few things that hasn't yet been modelled in our P-51 (that and engine idle behavior).

From what I've read, different ammunition is also fired at different rates- heavier rounds refire more slowly as the springs have to overcome more inertia.

In my practical experience, this is either a) not true, or b) so small a difference as to be imperceptible. Keep in mind this is a recoil-operated gun. That means that while heavier rounds have more mass/inertia for the springs and forward inertia of the reciprocating parts to overcome in the loading stroke of the action (slowing the action), it ALSO has more mass/inertia providing rearward force through recoil (speeding the action up). There may be a tiny difference, but at least in the audible cadence of the gun, you can't tell. ...but you can quite easily tell the difference in a gun that has improperly set timing, because it doesn't sound right.

Something that I doubt most of you realize is that the .50 has to have the headspace and timing set and checked often by a crew member. There is a certain amount of play that still qualifies as a "go" on the go/no go gauges. That means that some guns may fire a bit faster and some a bit slower.

 

I doubt that is modeled into the weapons here...

Not true. Headspace and timing do not need to be "checked often"; and by phrasing it that way, you are (intentionally or unintentionally) implying that the .50 caliber M2 was less reliable, or more demanding of maintenance than other weapons of its class.

The only time headspace and timing need to be checked, are when the barrel is replaced. Once set, it is good to go until you remove the barrel.

It is, however, true that errors in setting the timing nut will cause the gun to run slow. Headspacing actually has nothing whatsoever to do with the rate of fire of the gun, but if it is set incorrectly (too long), AND timing is set incorrectly (too fast), it can cause a round to fire out-of-battery (before it's all the way in the chamber), which of course is a Bad Thing.

I do not know if it is modeled but this is absolutely correct!

 

Obviously, you have worked with the .50 cal! :thumbup:

Why? Because his incorrect assertion supports further nerfing of the Mustang?

I would like to have realistic use of our guns instead of the "spray and pray" method of holding the trigger down you so often see.

Yes, but a 75-round burst, even at the higher 800rpm limit of the light-barrel aerial guns, is still a FIVE AND A HALF second burst. That's an incredibly long burst. It's almost a third of your entire firing time. I don't think I've EVER fired a burst that long.

Having to use short controlled burst is a characteristics of open bolt single barrel automatic weapons and not just the .50 cal.

...and if you knew as much about the .50 caliber machine gun M2 as you seem to claim, you would know that it is a CLOSED bolt automatic weapon.

[nod] Realistic gun jamming is one of the few things that hasn't yet been modelled in our P-51 (that and engine idle behavior).

Yeah? And you know what was known for jamming WAAAAY more frequently than the upright-mounted M2s as fitted to the -51D?

The Mk108 as fitted to the Bf109K4. When's the last time you had that jam under g-load?

Not true. Headspace and timing do not need to be "checked often";

Actually, it does have to be checked often in a .50 caliber. Not being correctly adjusted is the most common source of malfunctions.

The barrel on a .50 caliber is removed at every cleaning and can be changed in the field...that is why it has a quick change barrel.

What is the importance of correct head space adjustment on the .50 Cal machine gun?

Incorrect head space adjustment can cause a malfunction of the gun and lead to sluggish operation or failure to function freely

What are the common malfunctions of the M2 .50 Cal?

Failure to function freely

Uncontrolled automatic fire

http://www.armystudyguide.com/content/army_board_study_guide_topics/m2/m2-study-guide.shtml

Once more, setting the headspace and timing on a .50 cal...is a basic infantry task.

Some words on the H&T of the .50 cal from the Sergeant Major of The United States Army

We are experiencing an extremely high number of avoidable Soldier injuries from improper setting of weapon headspace and timing on the .50 caliber machine gun.

Are trained to immediately stop firing at the first sign of a timing or headspace malfunction. That they clear the weapon and ensure proper H&T if they experience a stoppage or malfunction during firing that produces a ruptured or bulged cartridge case, or notice the timing of the weapon becoming faster or slower.

http://www.army.mil/article/12332/Leaders_Book_Notes___Accidents_Involving_M2__50_Caliber_Machine_Gun/

Yes, but a 75-round burst, even at the higher 800rpm limit of the light-barrel aerial guns, is still a FIVE AND A HALF second burst. That's an incredibly long burst. It's almost a third of your entire firing time. I don't think I've EVER fired a burst that long.

It is the lack of cool down period requirement that is unrealistic.

From the link provided.

To eliminate the need for users to set H&T, PM Soldiers Weapons is developing two versions of the M2 machine gun: a "quick-change" barrel, to be fielded in April 2010, and a lightweight variant (half of the current M2 weight) which will augment the M2 with a fielding date of 2012.

Does not jive with the graphic posted.

12

Describe the Slow method of fire on the M2 .50 Cal.

Slow fire consists of less than 40 rounds per minute, in bursts of five to seven rounds, fired at 10- to 15-second intervals.

13

Describe the Rapid method of fire on the M2 .50 Cal.

Rapid fire consists of more than 40 rounds per minute, fired in bursts of five to seven rounds, at 5- to 10-second intervals.

PM Soldiers Weapons is developing two versions of the M2 machine gun:

First of all, the Article was written in 2008...

It is talking about FUTURE development.

But I have no idea why you think that is applicable to the Rate of Fire listed below.

Does not jive with the graphic posted.

That is the sustained and rapid rate of fires for a ground based M2HB...not the Aircraft M2 Fixed.

You are confusing weapons....and adding that confusion to the conversation!!! :megalol:

You are confusing weapons....and adding that confusion to the conversation!!! :megalol:

I am not the one who posted the links.:smilewink::music_whistling:

I am not the one who posted the links.:smilewink::music_whistling:

The M2...HB or Aerial M2...both suffer from the same barrel design and even use the exact same headspace and timing gauge.

What is your point?? :dunno:

The rate of fire you pointed out the first time has nothing to do with anything except BOTH M2 variants need cool down periods between burst's.

Now your making hay over what???