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Suncom SFS and Talon restoration and mods


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Hello from Croatia! This is my first post on this forum.

Recently I bought Talon stick and SFS throttle on eBay and I want to restore and mod them. I don't know if anybody is still using this HOTAS, but it is my favorite. I saw it 20 years ago in a PC magazine and I had wanted it since then. I could buy warthog but I just don't want to.

 

Anyway, my plan is to post everything that I do with this HOTAS here on forum. If you have any suggestions, please don't hesitate to tell.

 

Thank you!

 

 

:joystick:

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My idea was to use BU0836A-NC 12-Bit Joystick Controller with no connectors. It is cheaper and I wanted it without USB connector, I wanted to use pins.

FS8IEef.jpg

 

hBfetxm.jpg

 

Also my idea was to use dupont connectors when possible, because joystick would be disassembled many times before finished. It makes things easier.

 

ea7p3kc.jpg

 

Then I rewired pcb in stick, diodes everywhere, painful process. I used 3 bottom rows in matrix, total of 9 wires. There is possibility to add 5 more switches in future if necessary.

 

wYhzsZ7.jpg

 

Then I put everything together again.

 

Jbs56gW.jpg

 

SnSaT7C.jpg

 

4 holes were drilled, I want to use 4 toggle (on-off-on) switches that will be paired with 4 dual color LEDs. I'll reuse bottom PCB, I need it for original switches.


Edited by debolestis
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Now I have a few questions.

 

kbGNwcZ.gif

 

1 - Castle Switch

2 - Trim Switch

3 - Auto Acquisition Switch

4 - Paddle Switch

5 - Nose wheel Steering Button

6 - Gun Trigger

7 - Weapon Release Button

 

Real castle (1) and trim (2) switch can be pressed down as well. I cannot do it on original PCB. I found these switches on eBay:

 

R7YTC5V.jpg

 

zeeSYWA.jpg

 

Are these any good? Did anybody try them?

 

Auto acquisition switch (3) can be tipped forward and aft, at the moment it only can be pressed down. Is there such a 3 way switch? I haven't found it on eBay. I could maybe use an encoder with integrated push button.

 

Gun Trigger is two stage, any ideas how to mod it?


Edited by debolestis
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Auto acquisition switch (3) can be tipped forward and aft, at the moment it only can be pressed down.

 

I modify one these adding two small micro-switch:

 

sfs.jpg

 

 

Mini-joystick + button (PS3 style) replace HAT.

 

Gun Trigger is two stage, any ideas how to mod it?

 

Just add one more switch inside the trigger, see this example:

 

http://snomhf.exofire.net/dualTrigger.html

 

Cougar/Warthog, X-52 work in the same way.


Edited by Sokol1_br
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I didn't have much time last two days but I made a few changes. Talon is again dissasembled.

 

 

BJO5WVZ.jpg

 

I add 4 toggle switches, but I could only buy on-on, so I ordered on-off-on toggles on line, but I can work with what I have for now.

 

RWELntG.jpg

 

TRksz3q.jpg

 

Also, only problem that I have with this stick is a stiff spring, it takes to much force to move the stick. It takes about 4kg of force to flatten it, wire is 3mm tick. I'll ask arround and try to make a few new springs. Did anybody try this?

 

XCZnMGX.jpg

 

And one more thing. The SFS trottle that I have has broken pinky switch. If anybody has a spare one and is willing to sell it to me, please send me a message.

 

Thank you!


Edited by debolestis
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I modify one these adding two small micro-switch:

 

http://postimg.org/image/tpwqhkmuz/

 

 

Thank you for reply. I understand, but what I want to know: is there a 3 way switch that has integrated momentary toggle and push switch? All in one solution.

  • Like 1
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Not the cheapest way for a second life of your Suncom SFS hotas, but definitively the easiest!

 

http://realsimulator.com/html/fusba.html

 

Cheers Beer

 

I saw this solution and it is great but honestly I don't understang how original electronics work. Leo Bodnar's boards I understand perfectly and I want to be able to mod throttle and stick, not just restore it.

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Thank you for reply. I understand, but what I want to know: is there a 3 way switch that has integrated momentary toggle and push switch? All in one solution.

 

If has space to fit you can use one of these directional (4 way) with press button that you linked above, wiring only 2 directions and the press button, or removing the other two micro switchs.

 

Or even wiring the 4 directions "quod abundat non nocere". :thumbup:

 

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w37/debolestis/alps2_zps80af88ec.jpg

 

This one is minimalist, has 4 directions and central push:

 

http://www.rlx.sk/en/joystick-keyboard-switch/3031-alps-skqu-4-direction-joystick-w-switch-ef-07025-skqucaa010.html

 

Look at DoCFlyer pot to HALL sensor conversion - the "swinging" gimbal used in Suncom stick requires unconventional solutions.

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3108311/Suncom_F_15_100_SOLUTION_Hall_.html

 

Notice the trick to reassembly the coil - tied then down.

 

IMO - You are on the right way, in the end can have a joystick better than the original plus USB adapter. ;)


Edited by Sokol1_br
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I continued work on switches.

 

aYE9y6Y.jpg

 

YqocSkA.jpg

 

3p7Ck1Y.jpg

 

ZCLgllF.jpg

 

It is a mess inside, but I'll make proper PCBs in future, this i just for testing.

 

I also started to convert pots to hall sensors.

 

BScizH6.jpg

 

4DAV3y7.jpg

 

I didn't make metal parts yet.


Edited by debolestis
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If has space to fit you can use one of these directional (4 way) with press button that you linked above, wiring only 2 directions and the press button, or removing the other two micro switchs.

 

Or even wiring the 4 directions "quod abundat non nocere". :thumbup:

 

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w37/debolestis/alps2_zps80af88ec.jpg

 

 

I also thought same thing, I don't know if it's going to fit, we'll see.

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Hello nice work !!!! i have already change 2 Grip and throttle !!!

 

One with Bu ,and one with BUX and my last mod (the most realistic) with the electronic's of warthog and hall effet 3D not gimbal or mod !

 

I have a lot of pics if you want !

 

 

Great mod ! good job ! .

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

== http://www.3rd-wing.net ==

 

Extremmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Look at DoCFlyer pot to HALL sensor conversion - the "swinging" gimbal used in Suncom stick requires unconventional solutions.

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3108311/Suncom_F_15_100_SOLUTION_Hall_.html

 

 

It is not said which sensor to use. I have A1302, is it OK?

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Hello nice work !!!! i have already change 2 Grip and throttle !!!

 

One with Bu ,and one with BUX and my last mod (the most realistic) with the electronic's of warthog and hall effet 3D not gimbal or mod !

 

I have a lot of pics if you want !

 

 

Great mod ! good job ! .

 

Can you tell me more about "hall effet 3D not gimbal or mod", and many pictures please.

 

Thank you!

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i have done this mod. this joystick is not the most ergonomic..

 

hopefully you wont have wrist strain using this controller for extended periods of time.

 

i used a circuit board from a ch yoke and retained most of the switches and pots of the original sun com

find me on steam! username: Hannibal_A101A

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197969447179

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It is not said which sensor to use. I have A1302, is it OK?

 

DocFlyer use the Alegro 1321-EUA-T. I use the Honeywell SS495A1.

 

The above models are more sensitive (than A1302), what make more easy to use.

 

A1302 - 1,3 mV/G

A1301 - 2,5 mV/G

A1322 - 3,125 mV/G

A1321 - 5,0 mV/G

 

SS495A1 - 3.125mV/G

 

But since is easy replace the sensor, test with 1302.

 

Notice the big angle movement that A1302 need for varies from 0 to 5 v:

 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3226896/1

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I ordered new sensors, SS495A, basically same as SS495A1, just a little less sensitive, but half the price.

 

It is such a shame that this joystick isn't produced any more, so simple design. Maybe we should start open source project to revive it. Maybe 3D printed or CNC metal parts, new PCB design etc. Just an a idea, what do you think?

 

I can use Sketchup and Blender, so I started to work on gimbal. I tried to copy it as precise as possible, maybe it will be useful one day.

 

P0YnDV3.jpg

 

hhwijCx.jpg


Edited by debolestis
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  • 1 month later...

Hello again. I didn't work on this lately, it was a flu season and I was very busy. I was waiting for parts to arrive. I am still waiting for 5way switches.

 

I started to work on sensors. It works but it's not the best solution, it still needs some tweaking.

 

3PfMI6V.jpg

 

I tried to find sliding hall sensors and I found only THIS, but I don't know where to buy them.

 

Er9Ep24.jpg

 

I also found a company here in Croatia that makes springs. Original spring wire is 3mm thick and very stiff, and I ordered 1,5mm springs, but those are to weak. When I put together 2 or 3 springs that feels better. This also need more tweaking.


Edited by debolestis
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I continued work on toggle switches but I think it was a bad idea. It just makes things too complicated, too many wires everywhere, and there is limited space inside. I'll leave it for now and decide later.

 

Wlpr3Gh.jpg

 

Also 5way switches arrived, but they are so tiny, I have no idea what to do with them.

 

Hs2tkEl.jpg

 

FugmFNa.jpg

 

I think these are same switches that Leo Bodnar uses on this:

 

THlrxpZ.jpg

 

I'll probably do something similar, Any Ideas?


Edited by debolestis
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Sway switches

 

 

Also 5way switches arrived, but they are so tiny, I have no idea what to do with them.

 

20150323_143029_zpsljqvr50b.jpg

 

i could see those being used 3 places..

Trim switch...

Castle switch...

Thumb switch on side of stick.

 

All three need a "Z" axis (press in) will they fit the space allowed for the thumb switch? I know there is plenty of room in the head of the stick.

 

Where did you get them if you don't mind me asking?

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i could see those being used 3 places..

Trim switch...

Castle switch...

Thumb switch on side of stick.

 

All three need a "Z" axis (press in) will they fit the space allowed for the thumb switch? I know there is plenty of room in the head of the stick.

 

Where did you get them if you don't mind me asking?

 

That is my plan, all have "Z" press. They will fit, but are very small.

I bought them on eBay.

 

Link

 

There is similar model that will also fit but is a little bigger

 

Link

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