DCS Mirage 2000C Discussion

Actually, you DIDN'T say that. What you said was "WUT DUNT U GET ABOUT TEH M2000 HAZ FBW!!!111" as if I have been denying the M2000 has FBW for some reason. Wasn't very helpful

I didn't say that, probably, but I implied it. The fact that FBW and improved aero formula significantly improves handling, lowering approach and landing speed among others, is an evidence.

After browsing through some documentation, landing speed for an M2000 empty appears to be around 140Kts. With load it can be up to 200. That is actually ballpark of the MiG 21 which approaches at 180 kts.

It is lower than that (especially loaded).

I didn't say that, probably, but I implied it. The fact that FBW and improved aero formula significantly improves handling, lowering approach and landing speed among others, is an evidence.

 

 

It is lower than that (especially loaded).

Then next time just say it instead of "implying"

Lower than that? Source please? Everything I can find says it is at least 140kts, and that appears to be a clean aircraft. with 15% fuel and two AAMs is about 155kts and it goes up from there. Would like the devs input if they could be so kind.

Is that landing speed or approach speed?

A heavy F-15 can easily need a 180kt touch-down speed, a light one can do it at 125, sometimes less.

The approach speed will always be greater.

140kts approach speed is just fine, actually pretty average. And for a small, light fighter like the M2000 that probably means it'll be able to easily use a 7000' runway as long as it's dry.

And yes, FBW can improve your rollout distance.

Your source appear to be this :

checksix-fr.com/downloads/falcon4/Topolo/Beta/Falcon4M2K.pdf

Which is outdated (10 years+). There are significantly advanced and improved version of those flight models (by the same author), in which data is more accurate. I won't discuss it more on ED forums ; approach speed is around 140 kt, when really loaded, it's more around 160. Landing speed is 120 - 140 kt.

You can check that on a real video, showing a 2000C landing on its two wing tanks (gear retracted). Approach speed is around 145 kt.

1000kg remaining fuel, final speed 140kt, touch down at 125kt.

Ok, what is the next troll subject ? Ability to bounce ? Yes, the Mirage 2000 bounces better than the Mig-21... the proof :

[ame]

I feel like this topic gets derailed in a pointless discussion every 2 and half posts..

I feel like this topic gets derailed in a pointless discussion every 2 and half posts..

Yep, same thoughts here.........

Is that landing speed or approach speed?

 

A heavy F-15 can easily need a 180kt touch-down speed, a light one can do it at 125, sometimes less.

The approach speed will always be greater.

 

140kts approach speed is just fine, actually pretty average. And for a small, light fighter like the M2000 that probably means it'll be able to easily use a 7000' runway as long as it's dry.

 

And yes, FBW can improve your rollout distance.

The speed isn't that far off from an F-16s speed, the question really is does the M2000 usually need it's Drogoe chute for anything more than a short field landing. Most documentation I've found including Dassaults weapon says 140kts approach speed

So I guess the real question is how are the brakes?

Ok, what is the next troll subject ? Ability to bounce ? Yes, the Mirage 2000 bounces better than the Mig-21... the proof :

 

If you and others can't handle discussion about the M2000 vs the 21 without calling it "trolling" then just leave the topic alone

So I guess the real question is how are the brakes?

And the answere is: The drogue chute is here for emergency purpose...

I figure it's for two reasons:

Short runways

Roads ... which are effectively short runways.

Edit: Sniped by Sedenion with correct answer :)

The speed isn't that far off from an F-16s speed, the question really is does the M2000 usually need it's Drogoe chute for anything more than a short field landing. Most documentation I've found including Dassaults weapon says 140kts approach speed

 

So I guess the real question is how are the brakes?

I've said it a few pages ago, very short field and emergency.

So I guess the real question is how are the brakes?

They are good (carbon-carbon disk brakes).

But the Most Important question is.

Will you include the Greek Submersible Variant of the Mirage 2000?.

The Abillity to Take off and land on underwater airfields is a great addition that makes Carriers Obsolete.

The Ground crew just has to watch out for the Sharks thats all =P

During Cold War, short field operations were of primary concern because airfield could be attacked.

So Mirage 2000 has good breaks, anti-skid and drogue chute.

Most of the time drogue chute is not used because runway is long enough, and it's a pain in the ass to clean taxiway of drogue chute before next aircraft and to prepare it for another use.

In case of ice, contaminated runway or anti-skid malfunction though, drogue chute come in handy.

F-16, Jaguar, Mirage F1... had drogue chute too, Tornado has engine reverse and swing wing, Viggen had reverse engine.

And the answere is: The drogue chute is here for emergency purpose...

 

Yea I can't find any video of it even being used, so there really isn't a major reason NOT to replace the shoot with the countermeasure pod, and there definitely is a good reason to want the CM pod.

Generally there's no reason for carrying the chute, it's simply a possible feature incase the aircraft has to operate off of very short makeshift runways.

And while turning it back to the M2000C solely, it was asked a few pages back if the devs had any clue if the M2000 was going to release to 1.5, 2.0 Alpha, or both? I am very curious to know as well.

Seem to be a sensible subject. I asked twice and someone else asked as well. :)

It will depend on where the release is in conjunction with DCS World, it surely wont be 1.2.X, But 1.5 and 2.0 as far as aircraft modules work are the same, so it would/should work for either install. But again, it depends on release timing. If it comes after 2.0 goes full release it could be a 2.0.1 update or something like that as an example.

I see some of the discussion has been deleted... :huh: That is unfortunate.

The above makes sense though, I was not sure if enough had been changed to cause a 1.5 module to no longer work in 2.0. Having it for both would certainly be the best option, as I certainly want to fly at NTTR.

One thing I have been wondering about is if you can override FBW, and if that would equal total suicide in the delta wing M200C. From time to time in dogfights in the SU-27 I take advantage of the "ASC Direct control" feature to allow me to get my nose lined up for an extreme gun shot, or to lag a bandit who is turning inside of me prior to the ASC override. Can you override the FBW in the DCS version and if so would it immediately depart controlled flight?

IIRC, someone already said that you can't override it in the M2000, and doing so would probably be suicide.

With FBW disabled it is VERY hard to fly in any sort of coordinated or controlled manner, but it is fun to try. Especially at very high speeds you are most likely going to rip the aircraft apart or knock yourself out due to excessive g-forces since the FBW is no longer limiting your rates and loads.

 

A better mode to play around with is the spin mode switch. This relaxes a bunch of the limiters and disables some of the control damping and roll-yaw coordination. It'll allow you to do things a little more crazy but still provide a small form control augmentation beyond the normal FBW mode.

 

EDIT: To add all of our development and testing to date has been with 2.0+. Zeus will have to give a final answer but my guess the plan is to not go backwards.

Awesome! It will certainly be fun to try. An example of when it could be interested to try would be in a scenario I was in on the 104th Last night, when I got into a turning fight with another Flanker. I disabled the ASC just long enough to get my gunsight lined up for a kill. It would be fun to try something similar in the M2000 but I feel the possibility of entering a snap roll or a massive energy loss would be high (The SU-27 losses energy insanely fast when overriding ASC in a hard turn) but thanks a lot for the answer, I am glad we get the option to turn it off to try at least.

I wonder if there is an emergency procedure that would call for the pilot to override the FBW, and if flying without FBW is something french Aviators do from time to time. I have experience as a CH-47 Crew Chief in the US Army, and our pilots would practice with AFCS off to get a feel for handling the bird should the system fail or need override (as you can imagine, the Chinook gets very interesting without AFCS on). Can the FBW be taken out do to battle damage? I would imagine such a system is highly redundant.

Also glad to hear you guys are probably shooting for 2.0, hopefully the Black Sea port won't take too long for those who don't have NTTR (I do of course)

Any new screen shot or video goodness devs? The natives are gettin' restless!

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What do those numbers on RWR mean?

Does Mirage RWR work like the Americans ones? For example, 25 means Mig-25?