Do you take some (healthy) remarks?

Hello Razbam,

 

First, yeah, new forum room for a very very very nice aircraft :) :) :thumbup:

 

I would like to post some remarks about details I may have noticed on different screenshots (FSX) of you M2000, in the hope to help having more realism in your future DCS module.

 

Unless you don't want to, I will try to do that here.

 

Cheers

Az'

As the Fifth promised Air-frame by RAZBAM. being Single Seater, and widely used...

 

 

I can only hope to see this done by 2015.

 

I don't really think it's that much of a request... So Please, no negative whiplash?

Edited February 12, 2014 by CypherGrunyev

As the Fifth promised Air-frame by RAZBAM. being Single Seater, and widely used...

 

 

I can only hope to see this done by 2015.

 

Completely understand you, but trust me, if you could see the amount of airframes almost there, for DCS that have to be put on hold due to stuff not in our hands, you´ll say Oh good Lord!. Seriously, sometimes we are in the hands of ED and the continuous evolving of DCSW, the bright side of this is that they are there, waiting for the right time. The M2000C was moved forward over the T-2 for various reasons, sometimes we have to make a big business decision and we took it for the M2000C, UNLESS something unforseen by us happens, this bird will hit the DCS skies this very same year.

Best regards

Prowler

Prowler! Nice to see ya. I'll put my trust on your closing statement. We all love to hear those words... Thank you! -sent from kindle w/o tapatalk

I don't really think it's that much of a request... So Please, no negative whiplash?

Hi CypherGrunyev, may I emphasize the word between brackets in my topic title? Rest assured, I have no goal beyond helping a bit to get a "better" Mirage in the end :)

 

Let's give it a try:

 

In another topic, Timghetta (M2M team) just confirmed an important thing:

We are doing the Mirage 2000C (S-5) which has the RDI radar. Don't get it confused with the Mirage 2000-5, that is an entirely different aircraft.

I agree they are (really) different. And that's my point: on some screenshots of M2M M2000 (FSX), I can see some HUD data belonging to the -5 version, not the C one.

More specifically:

• The double energy "chevrons" : Those exist on the 2000-5 and indicate afterburner is engaged, but they are not present on older Mirage 2000, like the 2000C (or B, or N, or D). You can see this on the video below: despite flying a solo-display (with lots of afterburner), you'll never get the double chevrons on the 2000C.
  
• The AoA+G on the left hand side of the HUD: same as above, this exist on the 2000-5, but not on the 2000C. On the 2000C, you may have G indication in the HUD (depends on the active mode, e.g. you got it in MAG (Magic) or CAN (canon=guns) modes, but not in NAV mode), but you will never get AoA indication in the HUD.
  See the video below at 0'14": just after lift off the pilot says "Magic" to indicate he switches into this mode; the purpose of doing this when he flies a solo display is to get the G indication on his HUD; you'll notice the G appears on the left hand side of the HUD (below the blinking "MAG" for Magic).
  
• On the right hand side of the screenshot, we see the name of the WPT ("YYJ" ?), and heading/distance on the second line. Well, this also is on the 2000-5. And from the pictures of the real aircraft, it's more likely to be displayed DEST+number on the first line (no "name"). On the 2000C, I have an old doc saying it displays only one line such as "26 N 03" with 26 being the distance (in nautical miles, hence the "N") to the WPT 03; please note that's from long before the 2000C S-5, so maybe it changed since.

 

Video: solo display 2000C in 2009 at Orange (HUD cam) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aytcwZ75Akk

 

To compare with M2M FSX screenshot (my annotations) and a pic of a real 2000-5 HUD.

 

Hope this helps,

Cheers :)

Az'

Hello Azrayen,

 

Yes we already discussed and cataloged this in the Open Beta Forums on the Metal2Mesh site for the FSX version, a few weeks back. In reality the HUD was a base HUD developed to be built upon when we decided to do other Mirage version.

 

Thank you for the follow up posting, I believed they also mentioned this on Checksix forum as well. We are very happy about the passion people have for this beautiful aircraft, and we just want the same.

 

Even though Razbam is the owner/operators of the DCS license, and good friends/partners, I think you will find that Metal2Mesh is heavily involved with the project and the team we have for the FSX will be just as much involved in this version with the learning curved adjusted. This way Razbam doesn't have to worry about such information or loss of time and we can retain the Pilots, Mechanics, and French Officers, with their professional input.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Timghetta

OK thanks !

I didn't read M2M OpenBeta forum, will give it a go :) [edit] or not, the beta is open but the forum is closed ^^

 

And you're right: my post above is a summary of C6's threads on the topic.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Azrayen

I'm rather excited for this one...

Video: solo display 2000C in 2009 at Orange (HUD cam)

 

Put***, c'est maniable, un 2000! Encore gérable à 80kts! :surprise:

 

Holly sh***, it's maneuverable, a 2k! Still managable at 80kts! :surprise:

Deltas tend to have that feature. Still remember Yeager's comments about landing the F-102's predecessor.

Put***, c'est maniable, un 2000! Encore gérable à 80kts! :surprise:

Delta wings can fly at much higher angles of attack before stalling. The stall angle is usually around 15 degrees for a straight wing, and I think around 30-40 degrees for a delta wing. That is because vortex shedding over the top of a delta wing actually creates lift on the wing.

 

Also, the Mirage instruments are not metric? I just kind of assumed since it is European.

Not to sack Prowler's statement, but I've grown very eerie with ED's current trend... I've stopped using DCS altogether because of boredom and no new craft to fly... Hell I did not purchase the magnificent 8 because I don't like choppers that much... Somebody better come up with something soon... Or I am afraid that the rest of my days prior to marriage and work will be spent on XP10/FSX...

Also, the Mirage instruments are not metric? I just kind of assumed since it is European.

In the (western) world of aviation imperial is and was the standard, afaik. (and that is why nobody really complains over here about it - otherwise you would hear much more mocking and making fun of i.e. our US aviators ... :o)

Delta wings can fly at much higher angles of attack before stalling. The stall angle is usually around 15 degrees for a straight wing, and I think around 30-40 degrees for a delta wing. That is because vortex shedding over the top of a delta wing actually creates lift on the wing.

 

Not really...

 

15°AoA stall is for general aviation. Delta wings (Fly by Wire) are generally limited around 30° AoA, whereas fighter like Hornet/ Super Hornet almost have no AoA limits and can really exceed 40° AoA.

 

Delta wings are great (fuel capacity, strength, low wing loading, lower transonic drag...) but have higher drag at high AoA.

 

For instance the MiG 21 could take higher AoA (thanks to its elevators) compared to Mirage III (I remember an interview of Israeli pilot who tried the MiG). I think Mirage III was already on the edge around 16° AoA.

 

But fly by wire helped a lot to improved flying characteristics and to push the limits further...

 

At least if I understood what I read here and there :smilewink:

 

Any way, very welcomed project :thumbup:

Edited February 14, 2014 by jojo

I also read that the mirage 3 was front heavy due to the need for static stability. The greatly affected its manoeuvrability. The M2000 shifted the entire COG aft because the FBW system could constantly keep in within controlled flight parameters while being inherently unstable by design. This also allows it to achieve a much higher AoA while still being controllable.

Edited February 19, 2014 by howie87

Not really...

 

15°AoA stall is for general aviation. Delta wings (Fly by Wire) are generally limited around 30° AoA, whereas fighter like Hornet/ Super Hornet almost have no AoA limits and can really exceed 40° AoA.

 

Delta wings are great (fuel capacity, strength, low wing loading, lower transonic drag...) but have higher drag at high AoA.

 

For instance the MiG 21 could take higher AoA (thanks to its elevators) compared to Mirage III (I remember an interview of Israeli pilot who tried the MiG). I think Mirage III was already on the edge around 16° AoA.

 

But fly by wire helped a lot to improved flying characteristics and to push the limits further...

 

At least if I understood what I read here and there :smilewink:

 

Any way, very welcomed project :thumbup:

 

 

The F-18 isn't a purely straight wing aircraft though, it has LERX's. Vincent has it right when it comes to the general trend.

 

 

I agree with the last bit. A modern fighter is long over due in DCS.

Yes the Mirage III has one milder notch at 20 and one at 50 degree alpha. It's not only the shape of the wing that is important (and hence vortexes over the wing) but also the aspect ratio as the lower aspect ratio wings (like the mirages) has longer distance the CoP can travel over the wing.

Not really...

 

15°AoA stall is for general aviation. Delta wings (Fly by Wire) are generally limited around 30° AoA, whereas fighter like Hornet/ Super Hornet almost have no AoA limits and can really exceed 40° AoA.

 

Delta wings are great (fuel capacity, strength, low wing loading, lower transonic drag...) but have higher drag at high AoA.

 

For instance the MiG 21 could take higher AoA (thanks to its elevators) compared to Mirage III (I remember an interview of Israeli pilot who tried the MiG). I think Mirage III was already on the edge around 16° AoA.

 

But fly by wire helped a lot to improved flying characteristics and to push the limits further...

 

At least if I understood what I read here and there :smilewink:

 

Any way, very welcomed project :thumbup:

 

Mirage IIIO/E was good for 25deg AOA at "Amber extinction" on the incidence gauge :) .... you could get more out of it at your own risk though.