One Free Aircraft - The Poll

Good morning,

The discussion in the other thread has gotten very lively. If you're not sure what we're talking about, please read my earlier suggestion.

Here's the text I'm about to edit into the main kickstarter description:

Please note that we are revising a number of free planes available to non-backers on release.

 

This affects ONLY those who have not backed the project.

 

If you back the project at any time before the funding period ends on October 5th, your rewards will be as previously stated.

 

Here's what you'll be able to fly:

 

$0 (non-backer): ONE aircraft (either P-47, Spitfire, or Bf.109, to be voted for by backers)

 

$1: THREE aircraft (P-47, Spitfire, and Bf.109)

 

$20: FOUR aircraft (P-47, Spitfire, Bf.109, plus one more of your choice)

 

$30: FIVE aircraft (P-47, Spitfire, Bf.109, plus two more of your choice)

 

$40: ALL aircraft (all aircraft in the initial release)

My fear is that this will have more of a negative effect than a positive one at this point.

This can cause existing backers to cancel their pledges. This can give people on the fence a negative opinion of the project, and cause future pledges to slow down.

Most importantly, this has the potential to win us a battle but lose us a war. There are some very valid points raised by some in the other thread. If we release the F2P version with a single flyable, that may not draw enough people to the game to keep it running in the long term.

So, let's do a poll.

PS PayPal options in the works. It's more complicated than it seems. I don't want to just give out a paypal account and say, hey guys, send in the cash! Need to set up some sort of a storefront.

I welcome the change. If I had the choice between maybe losing a few hundred bucks in the Kickstarter (possibly even encouraging more pledges) OR having no product to sell at launch, I know what I would choose.

A game's long-term success isn't decided on launch day. It's decided in the long-term. If you run the game for a year and see that you'd prefer some more f2p players, just release an additional free plane at that time. You don't have to give out everything for free right now because of a (in my opinion) small likelihood of a problem somewhere down the road.

Let's do the poll and let the backers decide. You don't back, you don't get a say - makes sense to me.

Luthier,

Please be very, VERY aware of PayPal freezing your funds.

In fact; I don't see a possibility of it NOT happening if you raise more than even a small number of funds.

Even projects officially crowdfunded through for example IndieGoGo get frozen mercilessly (as is the case with $13.000 still frozen on the MiG-21...)

Upon successful launch you can always add in new free aircraft to coincide with other updates such as missions, terrain, world events.

How exactly will I claim the airplanes? What if my kickstarter info is different from my DCS account info?

I personally think 1 free aircraft is enough, if you provide 3, what is the point in people buying more? Yes they might buy the P-51 or the FW-190 but if they're provided with 3 aircraft as complex as these for no cost I doubt they'd pay for more.

Also i'd take note of what RAZBAM-Cobra says, PayPal are known for freezing funds in crowd funded projects.

Please be very, VERY aware of PayPal freezing your funds.

In fact; I don't see a possibility of it NOT happening if you raise more than even a small number of funds.

Yes, very well aware.

I guess we'll deal with it as it happens. I doubt we'll raise a large enough sum on PayPal where not having it immediately available would impact the project in any way. Other kickstarter projects did get their money released pretty quickly, such as Yatagarasu just a few days ago, a project with exposure and funding levels rather similar to ours.

Upon successful launch you can always add in new free aircraft to coincide with other updates such as missions, terrain, world events.

Oh definitely!

How exactly will I claim the airplanes? What if my kickstarter info is different from my DCS account info?

From what I understand VincentLaw, when the project is ready an email containing activation keys will be sent to your Kickstarter registered email address.

How to get masses into hardcore simming is not a topic for a brief kickstarter campaign nor something you should burden yourself with in the earliest stages of pre-development.

That being said, I believe your "making them fun to learn" is a groundbreaking idea, and something that might not only save the genre, but change it for the best. But it is a project in itself, one in which I would include everything this community has to offer. Film makers, mission designers, history buffs, the works. There is plenty of time for that.

What we need to deal with right now is, weather this community will hold it against you if you go the "one free" route.

If you look through the posts you can see hardly anyone against that. That should tell you that this is a very mature audience that can take the hard decisions and care more about the genre then a few $$ in their pocket.

I believe you should leave all the pledges as they are and lock the old 1$ ones. Forget about the 1$, it matters if there's thousands of backers. There's not.

So there's 38 early birds that will get the thing for 1$. We can all live with that.

Announce to all the non-backers that there will be only one free aircraft. You are not cheating anyone out of anything, you don't "owe" us anyhing for free. I would go further and make the free one similar to the Su-25, no 6-dof and no clickable cockpit.

Please if you are going to make such change which I agree with, do it AFTER the Kickstarter ends to avoid any possible confusion.

Well llya I read the text and I think that you should put that in. It has been 3 weeks people had plenty of time to jump in. Its not like their money was needed immediately, its not due till the 5th. You met your initial goal in a very short time, but I don't see this stretch being met anyway, as it appears to me...if the game is good, and I know it will be, there will be a lot of cheap skate people kicking themselves in their _ _ _

Please if you are going to make such change which I agree with, do it AFTER the Kickstarter ends to avoid any possible confusion.

That would definitely be the worse option. The second the Kickstarter ends, it gets locked down and RRG would be required to make the product they advertised. You would be very hard pressed to justify having taken money for product A and delivering product B instead. If they change it now, people who disagree (although I don't see how rational people could) can still take their money out of it if they so choose. That wouldn't be possible after the Kickstarter ends - in fact, if they did that, then they would have a real shitstorm on them.

That would definitely be the worse option. The second the Kickstarter ends, it gets locked down and RRG would be required to make the product they advertised. You would be very hard pressed to justify having taken money for product A and delivering product B instead. If they change it now, people who disagree (although I don't see how rational people could) can still take their money out of it if they so choose. That wouldn't be possible after the Kickstarter ends - in fact, if they did that, then they would have a real shitstorm on them.

The fact that you needed to lay it out again worries me...

The DCS modules of the past were always singular, with the exception of Flamming Cliffs which offered lower fidelity fun on multiple platforms to provide a theater where people could fight 1 on 1 or in teams.

I would like to think this project will offer much higher levels of fidelity than FC, similar to the P-51 for instance.

A lot of folks have the Mustang, the new blood you are trying to reach do not.

In order to offer a theater where individuals/teams/squadrons can operate and wage virtual war there needs to be similar year/era airframes on either side.

At least 1 of each, just to get going.

So a well thought out level where 2 airframes ( 1 on either side) is offered would be ideal as a kickstater, that way those newcomers that pledge at that level would be able to fly both, on opposing sides at their own choice.

Those who already own the P-51 can plug it in, and fly it as well, others can buy.

For me a 109 and a spit or the Dora and a Spit as a start.

The P-51 can remain a pay module plugin, and anything else that comes along for that matter.

Listening to Yoyo in the vid, most (if not all) of the groundwork has already been done for this with the P-51, so some tweaks to the fm and modelling required. (the smile on his face when Spitfire was mentioned tells me he has been spending some time on this already on the quiet :) )

Again DCS has always been pay for the modules, and I dont see why you guys should have to offer loads of airframes to garner support. If the flight models and fidelity levels are up to scratch people will flock to it in numbers.

Again, I wish you all the best of luck, I am drooling at the mouth in anticipation of this if you guys get it right.

And please please please, dedicated OEM server software.

That would definitely be the worse option. The second the Kickstarter ends, it gets locked down and RRG would be required to make the product they advertised. You would be very hard pressed to justify having taken money for product A and delivering product B instead.

No they're only supposed to deliver what they have said they'll deliver to their backers. They can make any amount of changes along the way that they see fit provided that the backers get what they were promised originally in the pledge rewards section.

Once backers get their 3 planes that's RRG's end of the bargain held up. If RRG decide to make non-backers get only 1 free plane then that's between RRG and future customers. Companies can make legitimate pricing changes after a Kickstarter and prior to a launch. Now if they very materially changed the final product you might have a case but still offering a full DCS level freebie (better than ED do currently) and leaving the rest as payware would in no way qualify and most players seem to fully understand this move - it just makes better financial sense in the long run for the base sim.

No they're only supposed to deliver what they have said they'll deliver to their backers. They can make any amount of changes along the way that they see fit provided that the backers get what they were promised originally in the pledge rewards section.

I think it'd still look worse if we do it after the KS.

A promise is a promise is a promise. "I did not back the project because I only want to fly the 109 and it was coming out free anyway" is a perfectly good stance.

If we did not promise a free game that'd be one thing. We are however promising something for free, so, while probably not legally bound, you could still make a case for a moral obligation.

In other words, even if we kept the KS as it is, we'd probably cut down the number of free planes before the release anyway. Doing it now, while new people can still come in, and existing people can still come out, just seems more fair.

I would go even further to say all non-backers on release of final product will get one "SU-25T" equivalent plane - maybe trainer

luthier1 also remember this forum only represents a small portion of your backers views. :)

Am with just one free plane myself.

Yes would think it's better to bite the bullet on it and do it now. Backers aren't going to be affected by in any material way as they'll still get all their DCS level planes. Non-backers will still an iconic bird to try out for completely free which is more than fair. If the product is good they'll buy more. Pledgers should always get more as they're the ones shelling out well in advance without seeing much content up front.

Ilya,

Yes to one flyable upon release but let the prospective player choose which one. A sptfire nut offered a p47 or 109 will not be a happy bunny and may decide to give it all a miss over just that.

This kick starter seems done, there are various reasons but the main one is that you do not have anything to show at this point and the map size is a point of contention for me (flying at 500kph across 160km about 19mins, ok, but...) Multiplayer? Map SDK? etc. I'm sure these will get dealt at some point.

So you may wish to consider starting another kickstarter as and when something substantial is available to show. Have regular updates to show us what you're up to ( I know you intend somesuch already ). But heres the twist plug the kickstarter heavily with each update. Have ONE or maybe TWO options to it. Logo should be BE A BACKER, GET ALL PLANES FLYABLE ON RELEASE FOR '60?' DOLLARS as the main option and perhaps include Alpha access with it, some will not take up he latter, too busy or whatever. The other one could be your signed underwear or whatever extras you wish to add as an inducement at say $100ish?

Thirdly make it ubundantly clear with each update, writ large! that theyre will only be one flyable at release but that if you back up till say alpha release you'll get THREE flyables for say $40? This will extend fundraising for a longer period (November/January?) and pull in the fence sitters as they can see progress demonstrated through the updates combined with 'If I don't back now I'll lose out on release'. By Alpha of course there will be a much bigger buzz. Also gives you 6 months to spam all the relevent forums and gaming periodicals. Will also allow you to build the 262 cockpit as we'd easily get the oustanding dollars to make the 150k I'd have thought. May even by Feb '14 get 250k plus.

Early resolution to what is to be done about those of us who wish to try the 190d before release, i.e. buy in Feb 14 even though we'd get it upon ww2 release as a backer, same with P51, would be good.

T shirts whatever are merchandise and should be sold seperately even after game release and will generate some revenue. Produce fan designs? Do more merchandise?

Hope it turns out well, but please don't lumber us with Steam a week before release! S!

That would definitely be the worse option. The second the Kickstarter ends, it gets locked down and RRG would be required to make the product they advertised. You would be very hard pressed to justify having taken money for product A and delivering product B instead. If they change it now, people who disagree (although I don't see how rational people could) can still take their money out of it if they so choose. That wouldn't be possible after the Kickstarter ends - in fact, if they did that, then they would have a real shitstorm on them.

Those who pledged get what was promised to them. That is not up for debate and never was.

Legally, there is nothing stooping him to change what was promised to non-backers.

End of the day, by me backing your project I expect you to do what is best for the health of the project.

This!

And what about the promise you made to the backers? Should they suffer lack of content after the release because you care more about the feelings of those looking to catch a free ride then the feelings of those who pledged hard earned money on nothing but kind words and past glory?

You have about 1700 people pledging 70$ on average on nothing but a nice promise. You better take care of them first, forget about the non-pledgers, for now.

I think the one free plane model for the release, plus paid for modules for each of the extra aircraft makes the most business sense.

This is also in line with what people are already used to with DCS World.

On a personal note, I think this also makes each aircraft much more special and valued.