IFR Landing tutorial video

Hi,

Here's a video I just uploaded to Youtube based on the mission posted here. http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=101213

Covers a few things like setting up TACAN and ILS in low visibility. It's not perfect but I'm pretty happy with it. Hope it helps some people out!

C2aZi_dXRm4

Fantastic work brother :)

You should overfly the TACAN station flying the course of the runway. Poins 1 and 2 in the briefing.

You can download my zero-visibility IFR approach and landing, it's simplified, using the divert page and ATC info.

IFR landing.trk

A few comments.

First off, great job on the vid, especially the clear narration. Sounded like you were narrating on the fly, which is always impressive. I always bugger up the narration doing it that way.

As far the your approach, well you don't actually follow the STAR chart provided in the original thread you link to. Specifically, you miss the first step of the approach which in turn means your turn outbound on 300 to the 317 radial isn't correct either. It does seem that your were using the briefing in the mission though, rather than reading the STAR for yourself, that is likely what lead to the above.

For your turns, they should actually be made at 30 degrees of bank. This is the case for ALL turns when flying under IFR. 30 degrees of bank is the standard rate turn, fighters etc. differ from light aircraft such as Cessnas in that a standard rate turn is simply 30 degrees of bank, not 3 degrees per second turn rate.

For the instruments, ignore the HUD, it is not a primary flight instrument in the A-10C. You need to use the head down steam gauges. Use the HSI, especially the CDI in conjunction with the course setting. Set your the CDI to the radial you are trying to intercept.

You also failed to set your altimeter, therefore rendering all your altitudes incorrect. That might not seem that big of a deal, but when it comes to IFR flight, being in exactly the right bit of sky is vital. In poorer weather not setting the altimeter correctly could lead to you being a smoking hole in the ground.

I'm working on a SID & STAR tutorial to go with the SID & STAR charts currently being developed in the 476th, I'll be sure to share it publicly once done.

In the mean time, here are the charts for Batumi so you can practice a bit.

STAR

SID

You also failed to set your altimeter, therefore rendering all your altitudes incorrect. That might not seem that big of a deal, but when it comes to IFR flight, being in exactly the right bit of sky is vital. In poorer weather not setting the altimeter correctly could lead to you being a smoking hole in the ground.

Totally agree, I forgot to mention that.

I'm working on a SID & STAR tutorial to go with the SID & STAR charts currently being developed in the 476th, I'll be sure to share it publicly once done.

 

Great news, I'm looking forward to it!

I'm working on a SID & STAR tutorial to go with the SID & STAR charts currently being developed in the 476th, I'll be sure to share it publicly once done.

:thumbup:

If you want i have created an MP mission for ILS training with the A10C.

Its not a tutorial, it require to know how to do ILS approach, but its a no visual approach with several aircraft in the air, including Tanker for any Refuel attempt over the cloud, i have set a correct wind, but the QFE its really low, its not a finished mission but its nice for training.

I have try to do a MP server with this mission but i think no one see my serer, my firewall (even with exception/ports and other settings even in my router) don't lets it work, i will run it again and see...

A10C In bad weather training MP.miz

Thanks a lot guys!

Eddie, I couldn't have asked for a better reply. seriously. Tons of info is what I'm looking for while trying to learn all this IFR stuff but despite getting hold of reams of information for civil aviation, I'm still having a lot of trouble trying to read the charts.

If anyone knows somewhere where I can find a quick howto on reading the charts I'd be much obliged. JorgeIII posted a bit of a step by step tutorial in his mission thread and I just followed that. I'll be honest though, I misread step one and instead flew directly to the tacan rather than overflying the tacan at 119/120...are you saying that if I'd followed step one correctly, set my QNH and turned at 30 degrees I'd have it pretty much perfect? That's great if that's the case!

Thanks for the kind words about my narration, it is indeed on the fly. I don't really like the sound of my own voice, but I can't stand youtube videos without narration!

Cheers,

Ebs

If you are aligned with the runway over the Tacan station, after overflying it you should do two identical turns using the info in the chart and briefing. After that you will find yourself at the begining of the ILS glideslope, flying the course of the runway.

And if you ask the ATC for inbound info, he will give you QFE, which means that after setting it to your altimeter, it will be at 0ft, when standing on runway. You can check it in my track. But in RL civil aviation QNH is used. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_code#Aviation

Thanks a lot guys!

 

Eddie, I couldn't have asked for a better reply. seriously. Tons of info is what I'm looking for while trying to learn all this IFR stuff but despite getting hold of reams of information for civil aviation, I'm still having a lot of trouble trying to read the charts.

 

If anyone knows somewhere where I can find a quick howto on reading the charts I'd be much obliged. JorgeIII posted a bit of a step by step tutorial in his mission thread and I just followed that. I'll be honest though, I misread step one and instead flew directly to the tacan rather than overflying the tacan at 119/120...are you saying that if I'd followed step one correctly, set my QNH and turned at 30 degrees I'd have it pretty much perfect? That's great if that's the case!

 

Thanks for the kind words about my narration, it is indeed on the fly. I don't really like the sound of my own voice, but I can't stand youtube videos without narration!

 

Cheers,

Ebs

The key step you're missing boils down to not fully understanding the chart really.

If you look at the STAR for Batumi I posted above (USAF style charts are much easier to read that european charts IMO), the biggest thing you miss is the IAF (Initial Approach Fix). The IAF is the point from which you start the approach.

It's going to be difficult to use the IAF in that chart for now, as it is a RNAV waypoint which would be either in your flightplan or the navpoint database, which unless you're flying a 476th mission, it won't be. The chart will be updated with the DME reading to Akaki on final release though.

The Batumi STAR is a bit odd, and not really all that user friendly for those who are new to instrument charts.

The important thing to remember about SID and STAR charts is that you should be able to fly them purely by looking down at your instruments and not looking outside/at the HUD until you reach the stated minimums on the chart (in the case of a STAR).

It's going to be difficult to use the IAF in that chart for now, as it is a RNAV waypoint which would be either in your flightplan or the navpoint database, which unless you're flying a 476th mission, it won't be.

ahh Akaki, I'm assuming that your squad uses the Nav Template posted on these forums a while back? Makes a little more sense now that I can see Akaki in the chart.

Obviously the plan is to eventually be able to fly these approaches purely on instruments and I'm slowly getting there but I've obviously got a lot to learn! ;) Looking forward to that tutorial Eddie, the existing public 476th documents are incredible.

Suchacz - Thanks, I checked out your track but it didn't really help that much if I'm honest, it was impressive due to the low visibility, but I was expecting you to 'overfly the TACAN' and set up a proper approach etc. It was a little bit confusing to be honest! :huh:

ahh Akaki, I'm assuming that your squad uses the Nav Template posted on these forums a while back?

Not familiar with that, but no. We have our own which has every real world nav aid in the region, over a hundred of them.

Good to know there's no pressure to do a good job on the tutorial at least. :)

I the mean time, this one made for Falcon is a good start, the principals are the same.

Not familiar with that, but no. We have our own which has every real world nav aid in the region, over a hundred of them.

Georgia and Russia? not bad! :)

I've seen that F4 video before, had no idea it was you who made it. Great job, gonna check it out again. It was pretty overwhelming the first time I saw it, but I have a feeling it'll make more sense now. Thanks for all the help :)

Georgia and Russia? not bad! :)

 

I've seen that F4 video before, had no idea it was you who made it. Great job, gonna check it out again. It was pretty overwhelming the first time I saw it, but I have a feeling it'll make more sense now. Thanks for all the help :)

Oh it's not me. Just one I found while browing the depths of YouTube.

Suchacz - Thanks, I checked out your track but it didn't really help that much if I'm honest, it was impressive due to the low visibility, but I was expecting you to 'overfly the TACAN' and set up a proper approach etc. It was a little bit confusing to be honest! :huh:

As I wrote, it is my own SIMPLIFIED method, use it at your own risk :thumbup:

1 - select CDU/Divert page

- select airport

- set runway course on HSI knob

- set ILS freq.

- set Tower freq.

2 - contact Tower

- turn to received heading

- set received QFE on altimeter

- if posible, begin to descent to 2800 - 3000 ft

3 - fly straight, until Bearing pointer 2, Course arrow and CDI begin to aligning, than turn to the runway course and complete aligning

- ILS to ON

- push ILS on nav. panel

- now you should be 8-10 nm from the airfield waypoint and in mentioned altitude

4 - follow the ILS needles, complete landing procedure

I wrote this as an inspiration not an instruction!

...but it have general use. I'm using TACAN only if my HUD/MFCD/EGI is down, and not all airstrips have its TACAN beacons.

As I wrote, it is my SIMPLIFIED method :thumbup:

 

...but it have general use. I'm using TACAN only if my HUD/MFCD/EGI is down, and not all airstrips have its TACAN beacons.

So you mean you use it during IFR? you're in the right thread then! :thumbup:

Looks to me like a standard straight in landing in lo-viz. like I said, impressive but not really matching up with what you advised me to do.

...I wish I'd know who to listen to here :/

Eddie, I thought your advice was a bit more reliable than 'someone said it on Youtube'

the 476th mission Navaids are probably based on this - http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=69880&highlight=navigation+waypoints (over 100 ;) )

Suchacz, all airstrips do indeed have TACAN (via a mod) Paulrkiii (from Eddie's squad) released a mod originally based on my work - http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1670160&postcount=69

Trev, thanks very much. I'll check that PDF out asap.

^^^ Updated

 

...

 

True! :thumbup:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altitude

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_level

ATC discussion thread: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=61375

"ABC123, descend 4000 feet, QNH 992"

 

"Uuuuuuh... could you give us that in inches, ABC123"

 

"Sure. ABC123, descend 48.000 inches, QNH 992"

 

:P

FAA Instrument Procedures Handbook .pdf

The procedure book, FAA-H-8261-1A is a good reference, and all the FAA books are available as PDF downloads on FAA.gov for free. I would highly this one, too, and as a prerequisite I'd recommend starting instead with:

FAA-H-8083-15B, the Instrument Flying Handbook. The only caveat is the equipment were are flying here fits better with the Control Performance Method than the Primary and Supporting Method, so think Attitude power and configuration, which you already are based on the video.

The video was just great. The author will make a good CFII some day. My feedback to the author is that:

1. You shouldn't descend and follow the glide path on the ILS if you aren't established on the localizer. The reality is that getting established is a lot easy when getting vectored by an approach controller. This btw, should be part of the sim.

2. When you're trying to center the localizer needle in the HSI, try aligning the lubber line with the CDI. This will result in a relatively small corrections for 1/4 scale deflection versus a larger correction for 1/2 scale deflection. Obviously this doesn't work with full scale deflections, but you need to be thinking missed approach and starting over in that scenario. Had you done this and flown directly to the TACAN as someone pointed out, the next try would have worked out better.

What's your reference on that? That's the first time I've ever heard that one.

 

Standard rate is standard rate.

Rate of Turn

Exactly, for a given bank angle in a level turn, rate and radius are a function of airspeed. So an aircraft may use a certain bank angle, but the only thing that would then standardize their rate would be a certain airspeed.

This is why some faster aircraft use half standard rate, and why I've never attempted a standard rate turn at Mach .78. At some point angle of bank becomes your limit, and 30 degrees will always be a gentle low G maneuver just as 60 degrees will always be 2g.

What's your reference on that? That's the first time I've ever heard that one.

 

Standard rate is standard rate.

Rate of Turn

Exactly, for a given bank angle in a level turn, rate and radius are a function of airspeed. So an aircraft may use a certain bank angle, but the only thing that would then standardize their rate would be a certain airspeed.

 

This is why some faster aircraft use half standard rate, and why I've never attempted a standard rate turn at Mach .78. At some point angle of bank becomes your limit, and 30 degrees will always be a gentle low G maneuver just as 60 degrees will always be 2g.

Just simplyfying things (maybe a bit too much) for those who've never even heard of standard rate/half rate. You are of course correct, a std rate turn is a std rate turn (unless you're in a large aircraft ;) ), but you're not going to do a std rate turn in a fast jet (even the Hog). You're going to be doing a half rate turn. Unless of course you really want to slow to below 200 knots.

When it comes to teaching instrument flying to those who've never done it before, I find it's much easier and effective to keep it simple at the start and slowly bring in more complex concepts.

Telling someone to just make turns with 30 degrees of bank results in them making turns at the correct rate anyway, and is more than adequate knowledge for a vpilot. Once people get more advanced they'll start learning more complex aspects of aviation anyway.

I made some attempts of IFR Batumi landing and here is a result.

It's not right of the book, but I folowed the briefing and approach plate info and made it to runway in one piece in pitch black dark night, with no MFCDs or HUD.

So... we can call it "succesful landing", right? :smilewink:

Comments are welcomed :thumbup:

Edit: My ILS needle hunting is a great axample of PIO - pilot induced oscilation, isnt it? It is pretty hard to chase them without any outside visual reference.

Sholdn't I begun a missed approach procedure?

- intercepting ILS - I was 2 dots above the glideslope

- landing - I was below the decision height and still no visual contact with runway

ifr batumi.trk

Just as a follow up here's what I've been able to gather after quite a bit of reading ;)

First of all, if we look at the ILS Batumi chart we see 2 IAFs. AKAKI and BATUMI...this is what initially confused me.

To know which IAF to use we need to take a look at the actual STAR chart for Batumi which is here.

The NAV point that you fly to dictates which IAF to use for your approach. If we take NEDEK 1B as an example, you would fly to NEDEK at or above 7000 then fly at a heading of 173 degrees for 24 miles at which point you would find yourself directly over the TACAN beacon at Batumi. From there you would fly the full 'racetrack' pattern outlined in the first ILS chart. The same is true for SARPI 1B and SOSED 1B. However, flying any of the other approaches in the STAR would mean you fly directly to AKAKI while decsending to 3500. When you find yourself at AKAKI, it's a simple straight in landing, WITHOUT the whole racetrack pattern. My Youtube video is fairly close to the SARPI 1B approach..although I obviously didn't know that at the time!.

That sounds about right to me, but please correct me if I'm wrong! :music_whistling:

If we take NEDEK 1B as an example, you would fly to NEDEK at or above 7000 then fly at a heading of 173 degrees for 24 miles at which point you would find yourself directly over the NDB station at Batumi.

That sounds about right to me, but please correct me if I'm wrong! :music_whistling:

You do not fly "magnetic" headings here, you should fly a "magnetic track", but actually what you must do is to fly directly to the IAF on this case LU NDB using your navigation equipment.

If you fly using magnetic headings inestad, those do not take into account wind so you will drift and miss the station and the appropiate angle to intercept it.

So the proper procedure in NEDEK 1B is that after overflying NEDEK, fly directly to the NDB using your navigation equipment. If you do it right you will fly a "magnetic track" of 173º for 24 NM.

The IAF of for the NEDEK 1B is not a TACAN but Batumi NDB (LU).

Thanks Furia but in DCS wouldn't the Batumi IAF be the TACAN beacon?