Addition of earlier Mig-21 Variants

I understand how busy Leatherneck is right now, but I was wondering if it would be possible for them to update the Mig-21 by adding older variants such as the Mig-21F-13, Mig-21PF or the Mig-21Fl. Most of these are very similar to bison, just with access to less missiles, some lacking the internal gun, and most importantly switches and instruments in different places and different cockpit textures. Also, earlier Mig-21's would lack some of the systems the bison has, such as RSBN navigation. I'm sure this isn't the top of Lesthernecks list of priorities, but it would make the module a lot more versatile in theatres and mission time periods. It would also provide a lot of variety

Bis, not Bison. Bison is a modernized version of the Bis.

Bis, not Bison. Bison is a modernized version of the Bis.

Your right I don't know what I was thinking

Honestly- it's way too much work.

The entire 3D Models for both cockpit and exteriors would need massive changes, and that pales in comparison to the changes needed in FM and Systems development.

That goes even more so for the very early variants (F) where the entire aircraft is essentially different. (can be likened to F-18C to E/F)

A PFM version will be good buy for sure. Everybody like have the real Vietnamese version.

I don't see it being worth it, it doesn't add much to the game and is as Cobra847 said, a TON of work for the developers. I would buy the shit out of a modern Bison capable of firing R-77's however.

I don't see it being worth it, it doesn't add much to the game and is as Cobra847 said, a TON of work for the developers. I would buy the shit out of a modern Bison capable of firing R-77's however.

Not necessarily must be made by LN. Whoever that make a Vietnamese Mig-21PFM will see how good gonna be such project. Just making a good name product to make the difference will be enough. Mig-21PFM "The Vietnamese Ace" whatever...

I would reckon no developer wants to make another variant of a plane that's already available. People who own the first one would be quite hesitant to pay another 50-60 bucks just to fly something only slightly different - and if they came from different developers, people would draw heavy comparison between their quality. Sounds all too risky to me.

people would draw heavy comparison between their quality.

That's true.

The best move will be a bundle sale with Bis version, or a lower price for PFM.

hopefully they focus on other aircraft not something that has a few differences from what is available already.

That makes sense. Its also pretty easy to roleplay an earlier mig, by just restricting yourself to older weapons. I'd mostly just like to see some variety, which can be accomplished in making a Middle Eastern pilot model for Gulf of Hormuz (wearing older soviet flight helmet, and perhaps a big mustache) or a North Vietnamese pilot model. It may not seem like a big deal, but the current pilot model looks too much like Novak.

firstly I realize there are a lot of people who play single-player, and scripted missions, but I'm not one of them.

The only way I see pre-IFFing radar planes to work, is if they make lots of different ones, of different nationalities, and the planes they fought against too, it's similar to ww2 planes in dcs, having only 3 of them means there's not much diversity and therefore most people just stick with fc3, the mirage, and the 21bis...

and then someone makes a server with only non-iffing planes, that somehow gets popular...

with the way dcs is, and the way most people fly, multiplayer anyway, a non-iffing plane is just not useable, because someone else will have iff and just blast you before you see more than a dot on the horizon.

kinda why, even though the F-5E and the mig-21 may have been a good match up IRL, in DCS, since the F-5 can't iff, it's majorly gimped, and nowhere near as good as the 21, because multiplayer, both teams have the same planes, so the F-5 can never tell if the 21 he's pointed at is enemy or not...

so if anything, a newer version of the 21 would be better, rather than older.

I'd spend 60$ for another 21 that could use R-73s and R-77s, but I think the bis was a good choice too.

I'd love to see more 21 variants, and it would be sweet to have some 21-93 variant with the Kopyo.

From a pragmatic perspective, I think Leatherneck made the absolute right choice with modeling the bis. It fits best into the FC3 era of aircraft, is very widely used, and can be limited by ordinance to sort of approximate older variants.

And I think another 3rd party would be wise to model a different aircraft than the 21, as there are many popular airframes which people don't already own in DCS. Since a different 21 module would likely only be bought by people who already own the 21bis.

I am a huge MiG-21 fan. The MiG-21bis was certainly a great choice given the current plane set and terrain. But I would be most interested in the variants that fought in Vietnam and Arab-Israeli conflicts as well as any front line variants that served with the USSR and Warsaw Pact.

The MiG-21F-13, with its much lower weight, lower thrust, single 30 mm cannon, two early Atolls, and range-only radar is a much different aircraft from all other variants, and one that saw extensive combat, most notably in my theater of choice: Vietnam. It would be my first choice for another MiG-21 variant.

But I really like the PF, PFM, PFMA series, especially the early PFM that retained the forward hinged canopy... sweet lines!

Of course, the S/SM/MF variants are nice, too!

So many choices, yet I would like to have most if not all of them. It would make sense to release aircraft in dueling pairs, not unlike the P-51D/Fw190D and F-86F/MiG-15bis. An F-4B or C or Mirage III vs a MiG-21F-13 would be a good match. An F-4D or E or Mirage III vs a MiG-21MF would be another good one, though the F-4E fits will with the bis, too.

I would reckon no developer wants to make another variant of a plane that's already available. People who own the first one would be quite hesitant to pay another 50-60 bucks just to fly something only slightly different - and if they came from different developers, people would draw heavy comparison between their quality. Sounds all too risky to me.

Pretty much this. The dev team would lose less money by sending everyone $50.

While I would love multiple versions of a plane to be available in DCS, I think it will take some time until that is feasible. As it is, there are many aircraft to add before looking at variants, and often doing a variant is almost as much work as a new module.

However, I would like to have MiG-21F13, PFM, Bison, and LanceR, as well as one of the later F-7 versions (PG?), though F-7 is much more of another aircraft than a variant.

I am a huge MiG-21 fan. The MiG-21bis was certainly a great choice given the current plane set and terrain. But I would be most interested in the variants that fought in Vietnam and Arab-Israeli conflicts as well as any front line variants that served with the USSR and Warsaw Pact.

 

The MiG-21F-13, with its much lower weight, lower thrust, single 30 mm cannon, two early Atolls, and range-only radar is a much different aircraft from all other variants, and one that saw extensive combat, most notably in my theater of choice: Vietnam. It would be my first choice for another MiG-21 variant.

 

But I really like the PF, PFM, PFMA series, especially the early PFM that retained the forward hinged canopy... sweet lines!

 

Of course, the S/SM/MF variants are nice, too!

 

So many choices, yet I would like to have most if not all of them. It would make sense to release aircraft in dueling pairs, not unlike the P-51D/Fw190D and F-86F/MiG-15bis. An F-4B or C or Mirage III vs a MiG-21F-13 would be a good match. An F-4D or E or Mirage III vs a MiG-21MF would be another good one, though the F-4E fits will with the bis, too.

That plus I would be willing to pay for it.

S!

I would pay for another Mig21 variant from Leatherneck anytime. One that fits Vietnam or a modern version. Just can't get enough of 21's. Amazing simulation.

With diversity in mind I would pay 50$ or more for a Mig23 (any version) that could join 21's in attack sorties. With the similarities of both planes in aircraft systems I think is a reasonable asumption that both will be good sellers and fun birds to fly.

First of all leatherneck should finish what they've started, you guys all know what I mean(Mig-

21bis) I think it's been 2 years since they released the MIG and still NO progress of complation of the plane and we're still getting bugs, fixes and patches...

And I will definitely pay again for MIG's variations but only if they really finished. I mean job finished, complete compilation. Whenever the project finalizes, finito, done, ende... You know what I'm saying ? I'm not thrusting this company anymore...

I totally agre.:huh::huh:

still NO progress of complation of the plane and we're still getting bugs, fixes and patches...

We've seen it better optimized, changes to the flight model, loads of fixes to address issues that have arisen, and the long awaited paint kit. To claim there's "no progress" is to be disingenuous.

First of all leatherneck should finish what they've started, you guys all know what I mean(Mig-

21bis) I think it's been 2 years since they released the MIG and still NO progress of complation of the plane and we're still getting bugs, fixes and patches...

And I will definitely pay again for MIG's variations but only if they really finished. I mean job finished, complete compilation. Whenever the project finalizes, finito, done, ende... You know what I'm saying ? I'm not thrusting this company anymore...

No need to be so harsh. The Mig was and is one of the few modules that was brought to us 99% operational (1% is SPS-141) in 1.2 . Yeah there are bugs and big problems that came with 1.5 making the aircraft not battle ready. LN is a new team and they are bringning to us the most desired and iconic aircrafts. When DCSW will be stable everything will go back to normal as was in 1.2.

No need to be so harsh. The Mig was and is one of the few modules that was brought to us 99% operational (1% is SPS-141) in 1.2 . Yeah there are bugs and big problems that came with 1.5 making the aircraft not battle ready. LN is a new team and they are bringning to us the most desired and iconic aircrafts. When DCSW will be stable everything will go back to normal as was in 1.2.

Hopefully you're right :(

We've seen it better optimized, changes to the flight model, loads of fixes to address issues that have arisen, and the long awaited paint kit. To claim there's "no progress" is to be disingenuous.

Then sorry for misunderstanding. I just want to say It's been too long and the MIG still don't completed. For example F15 is getting minimal fixes, mostly changes and upgrades. I accept that the MIG-21bis is the best module so on and I also fully read your Operation Manuel and I can understand that you guys done a lot of work for it like, stress calculations moments and other forces implemented on the plane body and on the wings and I also know that bringing the simulation that level needs a really hard effort to complete but I'm saying again ''It`s"MIG" not done and It's been too long waiting.

And apoligies for my harsh complaintment. Have a safe flight all...

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But I really like the PF, PFM, PFMA series, especially the early PFM that retained the forward hinged canopy... sweet lines!

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The best candidate