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Trim - stick jerks left helicopter rolls right


Sirocco

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I just re-installed BS. I've had it for a while but never got far with it due to control issues and bugs. I'm hoping I'll have better luck with the bugs with Win 7. But the control issues seem even worse for me at the moment.

 

If I start a mission in the air - I think patrol was the one I looked at - I'll point the helicopter in the desired direction and attitude then hit the trim button. The problem is when I do that my stick, which is an MS FFB2, jerks left, and when I release pressure on the stick the helicopter rolls right.

 

I spent ages removing conflicts between input devices and I've exhausted everything I can think of. I have a feeling it's an obscure setting somewhere but I've gone through option so many times I can't think what I must have missed.

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"Central Position Trimmer Mode", deselect it for FF joysticks (I assume you're using the 1.0.2 patch). It's not in control tab, but in gameplay options if I remember correctly.

AMD Ryzen 1400 // 16 GB DDR4 2933Mhz // Nvidia 1060 6GB // W10 64bit // Microsoft Sidewinder Precision 2

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"Central Position Trimmer Mode", deselect it for FF joysticks (I assume you're using the 1.0.2 patch). It's not in control tab, but in gameplay options if I remember correctly.

 

That one I found. ;) I tried it both ways and it still does the same thing.

 

I was trimming ok-ish before with the previous install so I must be missing something somewhere.

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Microsoft SideWinder FFB 2 adjustment

 

This is how I set up my Microsoft SideWinder FFB 2 in BlackShark

 

Options -> Gameplay tab

Un-Check Central Position Trimmer Mode

attachment.php?attachmentid=48259&stc=1&d=1298914668

 

Options -> Controls tab

1. Highlight the SideWinder row

2. Click FF Tune

3. Check Swap Axis

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=48260&stc=1&d=1298914668

 

Edit:

Never use curves and dead-zones on the FFB axis .

It will mess up the proper behaviour of your stick!

897258208_FFSwap.jpg.5c2fe371a20f506230ebd2468848b088.jpg


Edited by PeterP

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  • 2 years later...

Hi Peter -- I'm really skeptical that my sidewinder2 FFB is setup correctly -- would there be a recording I could make that could show you what I mean and maybe you could look at it and tell me what's up? I was thinking just regular cockpit view with the controller display enabled and some voice on my part tell you my concerns? If you don't have time -- no worries, thought I'd ask though.

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Hi Peter -- I'm really skeptical that my sidewinder2 FFB is setup correctly -- would there be a recording I could make that could show you what I mean and maybe you could look at it and tell me what's up? I was thinking just regular cockpit view with the controller display enabled and some voice on my part tell you my concerns? If you don't have time -- no worries, thought I'd ask though.

 

 

If you followed the sticky and you wasn't able to fix it with the given info/advises - sure , go on and post it - no need to ask beforehand.


Edited by PeterP

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PeterP -- as long as the idea for trimming is to hold down the trimmer, set attitude, then release trimmer, then it seems to work fine. If I just try to move the stick to where I want it to go and just tap the trimmer, all hell breaks lose.

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That sounds like it could be an artifact of the autopilot. Does the same thing happen if you have Flight Director mode engaged, or if all the autopilot channels are off?

 

Here's my thinking: with flight director mode off and the autopilot channels on, the autopilot will try to maintain the heading/attitude you had when you released the trimmer, and will use 20% control authority to get there. If you just move the stick and tap the trimmer when you get where you want to be, you have an extra 20% control input fed in (because you had to fight the autopilot's 20% to get there), and the autopilot can't counteract that.

 

FWIW, although I don't have a force feedback stick, I always do hold trimmer->fly new attitude->release trimmer when I'm not flying by hand.

Black Shark, Harrier, and Hornet pilot

Many Words - Serial Fiction | Ka-50 Employment Guide | Ka-50 Avionics Cheat Sheet | Multiplayer Shooting Range Mission

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Response curves don't work well with force feedback sticks in EDs sims. The FF still follows the underlying linear response though your input follows the curve you've set.

 

When you try to force trim in the helis it causes your stick to jerk out of position.

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Well, it seems it only acts crazy when I'm testing it before hydraulics are good to go. I thought I could just enter cockpit and start moving stick around -- testing trim, etc. I would, for example, pull stick all the way back and let go and it would violently move all the way forward and stay in that forward position. Anywhere in the 9 to 12 o'clock position it would just stay where I put it -- in other quadrants it would act erratically.

 

Once engines are going -- and so hydraulics working, it appears to work fine. Thanks for everyone's help, and especially PeterP for providing the sticky.

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Identity? Meaning user error? That's what I was thinking -- 90% of the time for me, it ends up being user error when it comes to high-fidelity sims. One last clarification though --

 

Number one -- I've been flying Ka50 since it's beta -- just never had a FFB stick before. The way I'm flying it now -- it's rather easy, but not a lot of fun really. I basically hold trimmer in, put stick where I want it, and release trimmer. Is that the main way to fly? What I just want to fly "free" so to speak -- like when I'm holding the Trimmer button and the stick forces all relax? Yet that feels so loose, I can't imagine that it's supposed to feel like that. HOwever, since my experience is limited to the Cougar, maybe I've been spoiled?

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Ok -- just watched video -- so it's like when I hold the trimmer button, I lose all hydraulics. Is that how it's supposed to work? Doesn't make sense to me -- the hydraulics are obviously still there.

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have you still "central trim method" checked?...

 

-whatever-

 

Force trim is a one way mechanism,

means: it doesn't translate forces of the swash-plate back to your hand, otherwise you wouldn't be able to hold the cyclic on a heavy craft.

( more detailed explanation from me: Damper and friction effects in force feedback for Black Shark)

Engineers try to make it as easy as possible for the operator - and not hard.

- yes the stick becomes loose (almost) in the real chopper - well, the mechanics of your Stick doesn't produce so much friction.

 

Whatever - it needs some acclimatisation after years you have done it 'wrong' - you will get used to it .

Fling 'Hands free' is easy-peasy for me , and yes, pressing while moving is quite normal - it really depends on you flightpath - in a hover/pin-point-landing I press it very often without holding... - while I make a 'funnel' I hold it constantly - there is no Right/Wrong - each flight state needs a different approach on the usage. - you have to get used to it.

 

This helps maybe too : Collective Brake - aka Collective Trim ... and why you should use it.


Edited by PeterP

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Never used the central trim method -- so no, didn't have that checked. I think you're right -- just years of doing it one way, it naturally seems uncomfortable, etc. doing it the "right" way now!

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That sounds like it could be an artifact of the autopilot. Does the same thing happen if you have Flight Director mode engaged, or if all the autopilot channels are off?

 

Here's my thinking: with flight director mode off and the autopilot channels on, the autopilot will try to maintain the heading/attitude you had when you released the trimmer, and will use 20% control authority to get there. If you just move the stick and tap the trimmer when you get where you want to be, you have an extra 20% control input fed in (because you had to fight the autopilot's 20% to get there), and the autopilot can't counteract that.

 

FWIW, although I don't have a force feedback stick, I always do hold trimmer->fly new attitude->release trimmer when I'm not flying by hand.

 

I was thinking the same thing.

 

OP: Turn off all autopilot channels and tell me if anything changes.

Does your in game stick stay in place after you trim(with autopilot channels on)?

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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