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VKB Gladiator WWII joystick


Sokol1_br

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The T-Rudder pedals can be used standalone yes.

Connecting the pedals to the Gladiator will only allow to see the pedals as an additional axis for a single control device (they'll be identified as the Gladiator's Z axis).

 

There are two options for the centering feeling: a hard center and there's also a smooth center (more suitable for the helos).

 

You have to reverse the cam to change the feeling.

 

Thanks! Will probably be ordering this soon! I plan to use for helos: it would be nice if there was an option to purchase a unit with the cam already reversed.

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I own the VKB MkIII T-Rudders and I swapped the cam around for the smooth center - and I love it. You don't feel the center detent, and it's amazingly smooth.

 

From what I read, the MkIVs have improved a bit over the MkIIIs, and I just might have to buy them as well - especially since they're now bundled with the VKB Blackbox! :thumbup:

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VKBNA_LOGO_SM.png

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I own the VKB MkIII T-Rudders and I swapped the cam around for the smooth center - and I love it. You don't feel the center detent, and it's amazingly smooth.

 

From what I read, the MkIVs have improved a bit over the MkIIIs, and I just might have to buy them as well - especially since they're now bundled with the VKB Blackbox! :thumbup:

 

(1) Is there anywhere we can learn the difference between the MkIII and MkIV?

(2) Has anyone compared the smoothness/precision of these to the, e.g. MFG Crosswinds?

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(1) Is there anywhere we can learn the difference between the MkIII and MkIV?

 

Here's some additional info on the MkIV T-Rudders:

 

full-191-119512-image002.png

 

 

-Rudder MkIV improvements compared to the MkIII:

 

1. More comfortable heel pads allowing different feet positions.

 

2. New size adjustment system and modified T-Rudder "feet" profiles, less prone to dust, with new rubber pads providing an improved grip.

 

3. Reinforced centering mechanism (4 mm thickness) with dual ball bearings for an improved robustness.

 

4. Reinforced pedals axes frame.

 

5. Improved pedals locking system preventing loosening or rotating the cylindrical part.

 

6. External access to the tension mechanism allowing to release the cam for easier disassembly.

 

7. Reinforced and visible spring force attach point (normal and high tension force).

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Gear: HP Reverb G2 | JetPad FSE | VKB Gunfighter Pro Mk.III w/ MCG Ultimate

 

VKBNA_LOGO_SM.png

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1 - (T.Rudder) Mk.III is out of production, basically Mk.IV has new foot rest - and some others changes that dont alter the functionality from Mk. III.

 

Anyway detailed in T.Rudder topic: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2735137&postcount=89

 

2 - Since both use the same kind of center system, the CAM and equivalent electronics, differences will be very subjective.

 

The major difference is the way that they work, MFG require foot/legs movement to operate rudder.

T-Rudder only foot tip movement.

 

And of course, the absence of brakes in T.Rudder - possible have "bicycle brakes" in joystick button through the software T.Link and differential brakes with rudder movement, more than sufficient for taxi maneuvers in any plane/game.


Edited by Sokol1_br
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I plan to use for helos: it would be nice if there was an option to purchase a unit with the cam already reversed.

 

Just ask VKB to mount the right cam profile for you when you order. That should not be a problem. :thumbup:

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/// ВКБ: GF Pro MkII+MCG Pro/GF MkII+SCG L/Black Mamba MkIII/Gladiator/T-Rudder MkII | X-55 Rhino throttle/Saitek Throttle Quadrant | OpenTrack+UTC /// ZULU +4 ///

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How feasible would a VKB style replacement gimbal be for the Warthog?

 

Not possible, VKB gimbal (and BAUR gimbal) are made for independent sensor placed on X, Y axis, they turn the magnet in front of sensor.

 

Warthog gimbal use a ball joint, done for make the magnet "swing" (X,Y simultaneous, they call "3D") over the only sensor used.

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I realize the premise of WWII style joystick, but as someone who is late to Black Mamba game... Is VKB planning to re-release Black Mamba, perhaps just as an attachment for Gladiator base? I'd really like to have 2 hats on my joystick...

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No, Black Mamba's "is history", finished, the end. :)

 

More close the end of this year they plan release the Gunfighter - with "WWII grip" of Gladiator - latter (2017...) this model will receive a new grip based in modern jets, but not "replica" of specific one and optimized too for "spacial flight games". This will be the option more close to what Mamba is.

 

What you can do with Gladiator PRO is use the Cougar/Warthog or Defender Cobra M-5 grip (the same used in Mamba's) as this model will allow exchange grips. Basic Gladiator no - at least "officially". ;)


Edited by Sokol1_br
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No, Black Mamba's "is history", finished, the end. :)

 

More close the end of this year they plan release the Gunfighter - with "WWII grip" of Gladiator - latter (2017...) this model will receive a new grip based in modern jets, but not "replica" of specific one and optimized too for "spacial flight games". This will be the option more close to what Mamba is.

 

What you can do with Gladiator PRO is use the Cougar/Warthog or Defender Cobra M-5 grip (the same used in Mamba's) as this model will allow exchange grips. Basic Gladiator no - at least "officially". ;)

 

So for someone looking to upgrade from a lesser joystick (x52), and wanting a VKB for its quality - I will need to wait for the gunfighter. But do you think I will be able to specify it to come with a Cobra M5 grip? Itd be really expensive to have to buy a Warthog or even simply a full Cobra M5, just to get a grip with two hats..

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There's still a way to use more commands with a shift button, but that's definitely not as comfortable as a modern grip.

 

post-979-0-43714800-1444132720.jpg

/// ВКБ: GF Pro MkII+MCG Pro/GF MkII+SCG L/Black Mamba MkIII/Gladiator/T-Rudder MkII | X-55 Rhino throttle/Saitek Throttle Quadrant | OpenTrack+UTC /// ZULU +4 ///

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Not possible, VKB gimbal (and BAUR gimbal) are made for independent sensor placed on X, Y axis, they turn the magnet in front of sensor.

 

Warthog gimbal use a ball joint, done for make the magnet "swing" (X,Y simultaneous, they call "3D") over the only sensor used.

 

Thanks for the information. I wasn't aware of the specific differences regarding the sensors.

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No, Black Mamba's "is history", finished, the end. :)

 

More close the end of this year they plan release the Gunfighter - with "WWII grip" of Gladiator - latter (2017...) this model will receive a new grip based in modern jets, but not "replica" of specific one and optimized too for "spacial flight games". This will be the option more close to what Mamba is.

 

What you can do with Gladiator PRO is use the Cougar/Warthog or Defender Cobra M-5 grip (the same used in Mamba's) as this model will allow exchange grips. Basic Gladiator no - at least "officially". ;)

 

What about perhaps selling the base all by itself, without the grip attached to it?

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S But do you think I will be able to specify it to come with a Cobra M5 grip?

 

NO.

 

Cobra M5 grip is product of Defender - not VKB (although projected by then).

This model looks that will be discontinued, as the distributor "profit at all cost" transform this in a uninteresting generic joystick - that cost a little more that other "uninteresting generic joysticks" of the market - so VKB can't depend of their grip, and as they set their own production of grips for Gladiator they dont want buy from 3rd parts.

 

M5 grip "is history". :D

 

VKB initial goal is produce a joystick that fit for WWII simmers, War Thunder, IL-2 BoS, IL-2's... :joystick:

 

Not for "jet simmers" - these already have Warthog, Cougar, CH F-16, Saitek X-yz... and are a more restrict/demanding market.

 

What about perhaps selling the base all by itself, without the grip attached to it?

 

Maybe when they set the production of Gunfighter(~Q4 2016) as this model follow a modular concept, is all metal and are designed since the very beginning for use extension (20 cm) and optionally Warthog heavy grip.


Edited by Sokol1_br
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There's still a way to use more commands with a shift button, but that's definitely not as comfortable as a modern grip.

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/uploads/monthly_10_2015/post-979-0-43714800-1444132720.jpg

 

Yes, although have only 3 buttons (not sure if HAT click like in KG-12) on grip Gladiator has better usability that e.g. T.16000M four buttons due the strategic placed button lower on grip that can be used as shift and has two modes. :thumbup:

 

All this can be used without need of program (like TARGET, Manager, SST) running in background.


Edited by Sokol1_br
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All this can be used without need of program (like TARGET, Manager, SST) running in background.

 

Yes ;) That's a unique feature I enjoy with the NJoy32-based devices. Just plug'n'play with the desired profile. Even with whatever keyboard inputs and the like.

I was thinking about reconfiguring my Black Mamba for the Su-27 (I fly the most) with the specific keyboard inputs, so no update would mess with my commands anymore :)

 

-----

 

[EDIT:

I just stumbled upon that video from the Asian partner. It's not the Gladiator but a reworked (and simplified) version named Cobra V6:

 

 

Based on that video the 8-way hat is non-clickable.

Unlike the Gladiator's MaRS, the Cobra v6 yaw axis uses a potentiometer. But it can be replaced by a [EDIT: Hall sensor (thx Sokol)] (DIY).

The max resolution advertised is 12-bit (4096 values per axis).

The firmware is much simpler and allows limited settings (deadzones, calibration, precision level (n-bit)) (not NJoy32 Pro).

Also, the gimbal suggested by the video looks like the Warthog Hall effect ball-type - it's not ^_^

From what I've gathered the Gladiator gimbal is close to the CH Products gimbal (no idea about the centering feeling).

And of course, the Cobra V6 is cheaper ($15-20 less than the Gladiator price tag ($100)).]


Edited by Bourrinopathe

/// ВКБ: GF Pro MkII+MCG Pro/GF MkII+SCG L/Black Mamba MkIII/Gladiator/T-Rudder MkII | X-55 Rhino throttle/Saitek Throttle Quadrant | OpenTrack+UTC /// ZULU +4 ///

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This "Cobra V-6" was the "Gladiator" (don't will use this name) to be be sold in Asia, Europe and Latin American markets - as part of partnership agreements between VKB and Asian Games.

 

Is the same VKB Gladiator (Njoy32, MaRS) but with this differences, partnership requirements to lower production cost/increase profit:

 

- Potentiometer (that "0,01$" used in joysticks) in rudder axis (In VKB Gladiator is MaRS sensor).

 

- NJoy32 firmware without programming options, only the basic ones available in VKB T-Link software for T-Rudder.*

 

*Seems that requested by USA partnership, as Njoy32 Configurator is too "advanced" for their potential consumers and they don't want spent time with post sales support. :)

 

But it can be replaced by a MaRS (DIY).

 

Since VKB MaRS work in digital mode and potentiometers in analog mode this is not possible, but possible use HALL sensor, or a GMR (Giant magnetoresistance) based sensor in analog mode, e.g. KMZ31 based (GVL2224 sell for 8$).

 

Sample or DIY HALL sensor in (Defender) Cobra M5 twist rudder - what people should try make with their Saitek's defective pot's instead try fix with some spray, as commonly advised... :lol:

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/2938-kobra-m5-3-j-serii-zamena-rezistora-tvista-na-datch/page-1

 

BTW - VKB say that this "HALL sensor" in AG advertising video is due the Chinese's difficult to understand GMR and for take advantage of the Tm hype of their H.E.A.R.T. HALL (T.16000M, Warthog).

 

VKB Gladiator (basic) gimbal is a revised and improved version of Cobra M5 gimbal (VKB design), with "pincers" for center, like gimbal used in CH joystick, most of R/C controllers gimbal and early Tm and VKB (Mamba) joysticks.

 

This kind of gimbal has a noticeable center position and is more heavy in diagonal movements, as two springs are working simultaneously.

 

Picture of Cobra M5 gimbal:

 

file.php?id=5432&mode=view

 

Clearly "inspired" in CH gimbal bellow:

 

image.jpg

forum image hosting

 

VKB PR (do you know who is) prohibits release pictures of Gladiator internals.

(IMO) Fool decision because the first thing a serious reviewer will do is open the joystick to show internals.

The "games bloggers reviewers" is that dont bother with internals...


Edited by Sokol1_br
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This kind of gimbal has a noticeable center position and is more heavy in diagonal movements, as two springs are working simultaneously.

A big, double no-no. Thank you for bringing this up as we can't count on the "professional reviewers" who consistently fail to report on controller flaws.

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Thanks for the details and the correction about the potential yaw axis sensor upgrade (I must have read that wrong, indeed). :thumbup:

 

VKB PR (do you know who is) prohibits release pictures of Gladiator internals.

(IMO) Fool decision because the first thing a serious reviewer will do is open the joystick to show internals.

The "games bloggers reviewers" is that dont bother with internals...

 

Same opinion here. Not showing an essential part of that kind of controller will bring more hesitation from "seasoned" flight sim enthusiasts.

But I also understand it will focus interest on the other features and attract other customers, less curious about the internals.

 

It's obvious, the classic Gladiator gimbal is not as refined as the Pro version and the recent cam design. But despite the quality, plastics mechanical parts could be misjudged and, overall, I understand why it's been decided not to show that widely.

 

Anyway. First thing I'll do is to remove the base plate and take several pictures (and post them) :D

 

VKB PR (do you know who is)

Also: no idea but (he) definitely has a lot to do ;) (my guess is Jason Williams from Stratojet has a lot to do with the recent communication)

 

And it's a shame European customers won't have access to the standard non-mutilated Gladiator. That MaRS yaw and the full NJoy32 controller are two significant features. Not that the Cobra V6 is a bad stick in any way. But definitely less attractive.


Edited by Bourrinopathe

/// ВКБ: GF Pro MkII+MCG Pro/GF MkII+SCG L/Black Mamba MkIII/Gladiator/T-Rudder MkII | X-55 Rhino throttle/Saitek Throttle Quadrant | OpenTrack+UTC /// ZULU +4 ///

/// "THE T3ASE": i9 9900K | 64 GB DDR4 | RTX 2080ti OC | 2 TB NVMe SSDs, 1 TB SATA SSD, 12 TB HDDs | Gigabyte DESIGNARE mobo ///

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Originally Posted by Sokol1_br View Post

This kind of gimbal has a noticeable center position and is more heavy in diagonal movements, as two springs are working simultaneously.

 

A big, double no-no.

 

Well, there's no much option to this system - besides the mentioned joysticks, VKB CAM Gimbal use two springs that will work simultaneous in diagonal movements.

 

Variations are:

 

One compression spring under the gimbal, Tm X models.

 

One compression spring above the gimbal, Tm T.16000M, Warthog, both with spring inside the case and Saitek's with the compression spring above the case. None considered 100% "stellar".

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Well, there's no much option to this system - besides the mentioned joysticks, VKB CAM Gimbal use two springs that will work simultaneous in diagonal movements.

 

Variations are:

 

One compression spring under the gimbal, Tm X models.

 

One compression spring above the gimbal, Tm T.16000M, Warthog, both with spring inside the case and Saitek's with the compression spring above the case. None considered 100% "stellar".

I understand.

The axial cam gimbals as found in 16000, wart hog, saitek and logitech sticks are really bad. They have a strong snap to center effect. Pretty much a rocking beer bottle feel. If you do roll left/right passing through neutrum with zero pitch there's a huge center bump. This applies to all axial cam based sticks.

 

BTW, the sole fact of X and Y springs are both stretching during diagonal movement doesn't mean it's incorrect. The criterion is: independent force onset for both axes.

 

In any case, %#@ me if I'm going to buy any badly designed gimbal. I can do better with stale bread and some glue.


Edited by Bucic
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