Joystick "Black Mamba" from VKB FSC Europe

To the lucky Black Mamba/Fat Black Mamba and Su-27 for DCS owners:

you can use the main trigger (almost) like the one in the real Su-27

ED implemented the autopilot-temporary-bypass (гашетка сау) for the single trigger sticks, altering the "weapon release" button behavior when you hold it while using any navigation sub-modes (МРШ (ROUTE), ВЗВ (RETURN), ПОС (LANDING), and the one without any task).

(more details in that thread - thanks to rrohde :thumbup:).

I was using the Black Mamba main trigger to engage/disengage the autopilot (default key: A) and the secondary trigger (the one you can lock in a raised position) for the "weapon release".

And I didn't want to use the same button twice in order to have that neat function on the main trigger.

Therefore, I modified the BM configuration to remove the "weapon release" function from the main trigger while using it as the гашетка сау function.

Basically, it defines the main trigger as two distinct buttons: one with a short press and another button with a long press and hold (held as long as you hold the trigger).

Unless I hold the main trigger in a combat mode, it's a dedicated AP button and the secondary trigger remains the dedicated "weapon release" trigger (and it can remain in the raised/locked position while flying in a non-threatening airspace).

It's not perfect but it's closer to the real Su-27 triggers.

Here's how to configure the trigger using the VKB Device Config software:

• change the button 2 function to a "Tempo" function (instead of "Button")
  
• choose "TEMPO 2"
  
• assign the button 1 to the secondary function (in red)
  

I hope this can be useful to help you having even more fun with your Su-27!

An interesting way of going about that SAU switch. However, this smaller second trigger is my favorite firing button, so I prefer to utilize my thottle button for turning SAU on and off.

Sure ;) We're luckier than the actual Su-27 pilots in that regard.

The best way to operate the controls is the one you're comfortable with.

I was happy to discover ED has implemented such a specific control (the SAU switch) and I remembered from my tinkering with the controller and config software that it was possible to assign a long press to another button.

There are so much capabilities that I'm even considering modifying a BM stick to add an analogic slew control (2-axis). But I'm not sure it's possible. I'll try to gather some info but VKB is extra-busy right now.

So with the new gimbal you will not feel the "crossing of axes"? will it feel more like the warthog?

So with the new gimbal you will not feel the "crossing of axes"? will it feel more like the warthog?

Yeah, kind of. Only without so much of a tension and no sticktion. That's the idea at least.

Depends on CAM curvature. Can be soft, no "crossing of axis" felling (e.g. heli pilotage)

or hard, you fell the center position. T-Rudder CAM 2 positions allow the two.

Not sure but looks they will send 2 set's of CAM in this upgrade kit...

There are so much capabilities that I'm even considering modifying a BM stick to add an analogic slew control (2-axis). But I'm not sure it's possible. I'll try to gather some info but VKB is extra-busy right now.

Theoretically should be easy, as Njoy32 support 8 axis and near 100 buttons.

The issue is the need of expansion board to handle the additional connections, and VKB no longer produced this board, discontinued due low interest... And get some technical information from this guys is not easy (as see in Russian forums), lots of "half" answers...

In ATAG forum one guy manage to connect the T-Rudder direct in Mamba base, but looks was need remove some resistor internally, change jumpers...

Suggestion: Take a picture of the controller (to identify the model) in your joystick and ask the their forum how connect 2 extra axis.

And the resistance increases with the joystick angle...

Thanks for the advice, Sokol.

I'll see how far I can go with that idea ;)

Suggestion: Take a picture of the controller (to identify the model) in your joystick and ask the their forum how connect 2 extra axis.

Just an update to keep the info visible in the thread: VKB told me it's not possible to add any axis to the grip with the 5 pins connector.

Hi, does anyone know when there's going to be a new preorder patch of mambas? I've been trying to contact the fellas from VKB FSC Europe, but they're seem to be away. I also could be interested in second hand black mamba Joysticks, but I really don't know if there's any market for that.

The Black Mamba line is discontinued. So no new pre-orders.

Maybe VKB will produce new (improved) Black Mambas in the future but there are several new products already scheduled. Don't expect any new BM any time soon.

We should see some modern jet flight stick in the future though. No idea when…

Thanks for the info Bourrinopathe, i'll stay alert for the next batch of products from VKB :)

VKB Black Mamba MkII internals ("pincer-type" gimbal):

Thanks to the modular design, I'm about to upgrade to the MkIII (cams) gimbal pretty soon!

And some successful surgery (gimbal upgrade MkII -> MkIII):

Everything went well and it was rather easy to change the gimbal.

I moved the MaRS sensors from the MkII gimbal to the MkIII, changed the x axis (roll) cam for the hard center model, changed the y axis (pitch) spring for a stronger one (after a quick test) , mounted and connected everything back in the base and finally connected the flightstick.

It didn't even require any new calibration.

It's too early to give more than a first impression as I only flew about two hours with the Su-27 and the MiG-15bis.

What I particularly enjoyed is the pitch axis smoothness (barely noticeable transition in the center position).

The hard center cam is still smoother than the pincer-type gimbal but very noticeable without being too hard (imo). With the hard x axis center I've been able to perform pretty clean loops/immelmanns without induced roll input. It's just a personal preference so I can isolate the pitch input more easily (especially with the Su-27).

Another very useful feature is the axis progressive resistance.

With the stronger spring I installed for the pitch axis, reaching the end of the axis range progressively requires noticeably more force. The difference between the force required near the center and near the extremities is rather significant (difficult to quantify with words but it's definitely there and you will feel it).

With the Su-27 it provides a very useful mechanical feedback to avoid pulling too many Gs and keeping the AoA below 20-25 during ACM and aerobatic figures.

I only tested a few flights with the Su-27 (T-O/landing, basic handling and aerobatics, dogfight, IR WVR combat, and near-crash experiences ;) ). Always a delight to fly. I launched the instant "intercept" mission with the MiG-15bis, only to T-O and fool around (what a lovely bird).

Due to the center position smoothness (with the soft center cam), I think it will be important to test and choose the spring(s) carefully (my flightstick is used as a lateral stick and it's slightly inclined forward to help pulling the stick comfortably and repeatedly - so the weight of my grip tends to push the soft center forward).

I think the new gimbal will require some "break-in" period and more familiarization to get the most of it.

At least, for now, it feels great and better than the (already very good) pincer-type gimbal, in my case (I also have no extender) as I wanted a smooth pitch axis. :thumbsup:

Thank you for this informative write-up, Bourrinopathe!

So, what spring stiffness did you go with? How many different springs are included? And, how did you determine which cam has what type of center (soft and hard)? I would guess that for an all-soft-center cam you'd need the stiffest springs in order to have a precise center?

Looking forward to my MkIII... I believe they're shipping the batch that includes mine some time next week. :)

I used the stiffest spring on the pitch axis (soft center) and the default one on the roll axis (hard center). I think we could even use two springs per axis (it was also possible with the MkII gimbal) but I didn't try.

Imho, choosing the springs for an all-soft-center cam would depend on your personal feeling preference (looseness/stiffness) and how you use your flight stick (lateral/center position, on the desk, on a stand, angle and elevation, extender, jet/helicopter-oriented, etc.).

The best thing is we're able to customize it.

Now that you can see the cams, it should be more obvious which one is the hard center model (30) ;)

Also they're easy to switch.

By the way, are you going to receive the extender with your Fat Black Mamba?

Thanks for the info and picture! Those darker looking springs seem to be the strongest ones?

And yes, I'm getting the extender with the MkIII Mamba; this is towards me getting an Obutto hopefully soon, and mounting it somehow that way. Or, as a side-stick without extension... dunno yet.

And some successful surgery (gimbal upgrade MkII -> MkIII)

You got your upgrade already!?

Did you order from flightsimcontrols.com?

Still waiting for mine...

how can someone go about purchasing this beauty?

how can someone go about purchasing this beauty?

Do you speak Russian and have a way with persuasion? They aren't making anymore.

The gunfighter mk1 model is supposed to be the enthusiast model they make next using the same gimbal.

No idea when that might be up for preorder, but basically you have to be lucky enough to spot it up for preorder and get one before they sell out.

gostratojet.com is the north american reseller partner for them. But he doesn't reply to email inquires about when more might be available, so your guess is as good as anyone's. The forum says 2016 quarter 1 for the gunfighter model, I'd have to guess after they finish shipping the order of Mamba MKIII they took in november.

If you want one basically best case scenario I can see is check their forum daily watching for a preorder announcement.

You got your upgrade already!?

Did you order from flightsimcontrols.com?

 

Still waiting for mine...

I ordered directly from VKB Russia as I'm closer to their production site (and probably the only customer in such a remote location ;) ). From what I've read, the other units will be prepared and dispatched to Europe and the US soon.

About getting info on the new products, one the solutions would be to check their official website from time to time, but also to subscribe to the related threads on that forum (like this one) as several members are very interested in their devices and will spread any significant news rather quickly (I'm still craving for a modern dual throttle and an even more complex modern jet grip myself :music_whistling:).

I got an email from FSC.com that the upgrades will ship from production this week.

Excellent!

I hope you'll find some time to drop by and post what you think about the gimbal ;)

Do i have a chance to buy ( somewhere / somehow ) the joystick "Black Mamba" ?

I mean this one :

https://flightsimcontrols.com/store/joysticks/vkb-fat-black-mamba-for-non-eu/

Look at il-2 (Russian) forum flea market, eventually someone sold one.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/forum/42-baraholka/