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DCS Mirage 2000C Discussion


Bluedrake42

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First.

 

The Mig-21 cant carry 8 R-60Ms Its a maximum of 4 (you can only have the double "pylon" on the inboard or outboard hardpoint not both.

 

So you can carry 1 double pylon on each wing and then a single pylon on the other hardpoint.

 

So Maximum of 6 Air-Air missiles.

 

And what was the Nationality of the Mig-21 you saw?.

 

I neversaid it was not common i just said far from all Mig-21Bis Operators used it.

 

And Unless you have friends who have Worked on the mig From every nation Operating the Bis Variant then that does not have an effect on my statement...

 


Edited by Hook47
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MiG-21 manoeuvrability is closer to Mirage III. They are both stable aircraft and lack the agility of modern relaxed stability aircraft such as Mirage 2000.

 

 

Agreed, but I still hold to the MiG 21 managing energy better than the Mirage 2000. Look forward to finding out if I'm right in a couple weeks


Edited by Hook47
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Well the difference is a little more subtle than that.

First you have to distinguish (1) the early -5s variants, including :

- domestic (-5F),

- variants (-5EDA, -5Ei)

They all share the same RDY radar, but the -5F attack and navigation system doesn't support any air-to-ground modes ; the export ones feature modified EWS, noticeable by the different RWR antennas (two additional superhet on the fin)

 

Then comes the late -5 family, all export, also called "Mk2" :

- emirati (-9EAD)

- greek (-5EG)

- indian (I)

Some difference exist between those concerning some subsystems (EWS, integrated weaponry..) but the main feature they share is the new EMTI (MDPU in english), i.e Integrated Modular Avionics, and they are all A/G capable. The I features some further enhancement and is fitted with RDY-3 versus RDY-2 for the two former (better processing power, etc.).

 

OK... but that doesn't change a single word from my previous post:

 

The -9 is basically a -5 with additional A/G options (export version).

Meaning that A/A capabilities are exactly the same, let aside some minor radar differences (RDY > RDY2).

 

My point was not to go deep into the details, just to highlight that the A/A capabilities of the -5 and -9 are pretty much the same.

 

This was answering to some statements like "the -5 is OK but the -9 is the ultimate A/A fighter" :)

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Agreed, but I still hold to the MiG 21 managing energy better than the Mirage 2000. Look forward to finding out if I'm right in a couple weeks

I don't think it can.

5cKtxkg.jpg

 

21.jpg

Looks to me like the Mirage can sustain a higher g turn in addition to its higher instantaneous turn rate.

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Another teaser:

 

Soon, very soon. :music_whistling:

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Another teaser:

 

Soon, very soon. :music_whistling:

 

Looking very very good Zeus. It's the 30th here in NZ already :)

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We will start working on the manual this week.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."

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I don't think it can.

5cKtxkg.jpg

 

21.jpg

Looks to me like the Mirage can sustain a higher g turn in addition to its higher instantaneous turn rate.

 

Great charts. Interesting... Yes on paper it appears the Mirage has better sustained turn rate. That may help its lack of weapon and CM, but we will see. MiG vs. Mirage is something I'll be trying very quickly simply because I'm itching to have two full fidelity multirole fighters square off! This has never happened in DCS history

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On 1.5 OB or NTTR Alpha ? :)

 

Good question.

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Great charts. Interesting... Yes on paper it appears the Mirage has better sustained turn rate. That may help its lack of weapon and CM, but we will see. MiG vs. Mirage is something I'll be trying very quickly simply because I'm itching to have two full fidelity multirole fighters square off! This has never happened in DCS history

 

Again, the M2000C is no multirole, it's an A/A fighter.

 

And you already have plenty of full fidelity fighters in DCS, P-51 vs. FW190, F-86 vs. MiG-15... oh wait, maybe you mean modern fighters... which the MiG-21 is definitely not ;)

 

I understand people on this forum can't help comparing the 21 and the 2000, and they won't stop doing it (at least until they get their hands on the Mirage and realize they don't play in the same league...)

But stop wasting your time trying to find rational reasons for it, because they don't exist :)

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Mud, wind and fire.

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The Mig 21 is not on the same category as the Mirage, there will be fun fights of course, but it not be "equal" in any part of the meaning.

 

Expect the Mirage to be a good fighter for Mp matches, if you can avoid the Spam of 120,s . But for sure you will have more opportunities than in the 21

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Just to fan the flames in the M-2000C vs Mig-21Bis discussion:

 

The fight was done with sensors since visibility was nil and ceiling was very low.

I got hit and lost the radar but by that time I got Magic lock and he was gone. The other one escaped and I couldn't follow, not in that whiteness and without radar and rwr.

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"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."

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Just to fan the flames in the M-2000C vs Mig-21Bis discussion:

 

The fight was done with sensors since visibility was nil and ceiling was very low.

I got hit and lost the radar but by that time I got Magic lock and he was gone. The other one escaped and I couldn't follow, not in that whiteness and without radar and rwr.

 

To add, we found this week we were not quite hitting posted sustained turn rates and losing energy faster than we should be. Something I will quickly fix when I get home from the holidays.

"Witness mere F-14s taking off from adjacent flight decks, gracefully canting left and right, afterburners flaming, and there’s something that sweeps you away—or at least it does me. And no amount of knowledge of the potential abuses of carrier task forces can affect the depth of that feeling. It simply speaks to another part of me. It doesn’t want recriminations or politics. It just wants to fly.”

― Carl Sagan

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It looked like you were flying at about 50% N1 the whole time

 

I know how to build them, but do not expect me to know how to fly them. :)

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."

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