VAF [136] Striker Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) Read about EFT problems: http://www.janes.com/article/44037/eurofighters-hit-by-manufacturing-issue http://theaviationist.com/2015/08/08/have-indian-su-30s-really-dominated-raf-typhoons-in-aerial-combat-with-a-12-0-scoreline-most-probably-not/ Your sources state that the Typhoon has pretty minor issue with regards to the manufacturing problem. It says in the article that the problem is very minor and doesn't affect RAF service at all. In fact it doesn't cause any performance or safety issues. I haven't heard of any Typhoons crashing or failing in flight. I think that it's a very well designed and reliable aircraft from everything I've read over the years. And remember that it's a very new aircraft. Most new designs go through many years of design and update changes to correct problems. Also, the second article states in several places that the Indian air force has a long history of embellishing their performance in combat practice. You can even go as far to state that their claims are laughable. I would like to see some other results from another joint exercise since their results are extremely questionable. And, I'm also a little suspicious of results that don't come from official sources. The commanders in another article I read stated that they don't discuss results of these exercises. I think that's for obvious reasons. Edited August 29, 2015 by 75th-VFS-Striker Nvidia GTX-1080 Intel i7-4820K 3.7 Ghz ASUS ROG Rampage IV Extreme MB 32 GB Memory Windows 7 Pro 64 Bit [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment
Tricky11 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 The euro fighter is not as great as everyone would think.. http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indian-air-forces-top-guns-score-wins-in-the-uk-1204336?site=full Lol Link to comment
VAF [136] Striker Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) The euro fighter is not as great as everyone would think.. http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indian-air-forces-top-guns-score-wins-in-the-uk-1204336?site=full Lol If you read that article carefully it's very clear that the group captain is being careful in the way he states the results. In an exclusive interview, Group Captain Ashu Srivastav, the Contingent Commander in the exercises, told NDTV that the performance of his pilots was "exceptional." According to Group Captain Srivastav, who happens to be the IAF's most experienced Su-30 pilot, his pilots showed "flexibility and adaptability to a new environment and operating conditions and on this benchmark, I would rate them exceptional."He also says this later in the article. Asked about the performance of IAF pilots in these Large Force Engagements, Group Captain Srivastav told NDTV his pilots performed "fairly well" though "quantifying [the results] is difficult". It was not unexpected for the IAF to "lose" one or two jets (over all the Large Force Engagements put together) given that the movement of each formation was directed by fighter controllers coordinating an overall air battle.So it looks like he's backtracking his original statement. It doesn't say anything about the official results and again I have to say that it's very much classified. I wouldn't assume anything about the performance of either the IAF or the RAF because you just don't know. And I still say anything coming from some Indian news network is mostly propaganda. I don't know anything about the performance of the EF in mocked or real conflict with Russian or American aircraft in close range so I wouldn't want to speculate on that issue but I would bet that in BVR combat that the EF is superior to the Su-30 because of the advanced avionics. And after they implement the Meteor missile it will be even more so mainly because of the 100km range of the Meteor compared to the published 52km range of the R-27. Now if the Russians can get the K-100 to work since it's been plagued with development issues that may be a game changer. From what I've read they've done testing on the Su-27 but it hasn't been successful or at least they haven't published that it was. In real life BVR is where it counts and dogfights are rare and the Western developers have held that edge for a long time. So if I were a real life fighter pilot I would bet my chances on the EF over a Sukhoi any day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_%28missile%29 Edited August 31, 2015 by 75th-VFS-Striker Nvidia GTX-1080 Intel i7-4820K 3.7 Ghz ASUS ROG Rampage IV Extreme MB 32 GB Memory Windows 7 Pro 64 Bit [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment
Exorcet Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 Show any video, any, of a western fighter doing this maneuvers: Airshow maneuvers are unimportant. The Su-27 like the F-15, is a transonic fighter. They didn't plan to see supersonic fight outside of quick dashes. The EF can supercruise and is probably designed to take advantage of that. At high speed it will likely outperform any Su-27 derivative. Awaiting: DCS F-15C Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files Link to comment
wilky510 Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Little side hit to the Raptor fanboys ;-) I read a report in which the eurofighter had a 1 - 1 loss ratio with the F22s from the air force ;-) Maybe that gives some hint to the capabilities of that plane. If it was the German airforce making those comments, i'd take them with a grain of salt. They handled that whole exercise like a bunch of children. Link to comment
*Rage* Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 If it was the German airforce making those comments, i'd take them with a grain of salt. They handled that whole exercise like a bunch of children. Please explain... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 64th "Scorpions" Aggressor Squadron Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron TS: 195.201.110.22 Link to comment
QuiGon Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 If it was the German airforce making those comments, i'd take them with a grain of salt. They handled that whole exercise like a bunch of children. You made me curious. I would like to know more about that. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment
Fer_Fer Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Somebody here made some points about the Typhoon-Rafale matchup, which IMHO is fairly irrelevant as both have been designed with different idea's in mind. and most of the bad press the Rafale gets is a bit undeserved. (for example http://www.business-standard.com/article/news-ani/rafale-can-be-shot-down-like-mosquitoes-by-chinese-made-sukhoi-russian-envoy-114101800712_1.html ) However, fortunately, over the years, some of the tenders have been leaked, and those provide an interesting insight in how the military thinks about them. The first is the swiss tender of 2008 Phase I Phase II, 2009 Original Swiss document http://lignesdedefense.blogs.ouest-france.fr/files/rapport%20suisse.pdf Dutch Tender, 2001 (supplied by the Dutch budgeting office and the MoD) but IMHO any debate over which one is better is pretty much irrelevant, as they have been designed for very different things from the ground up. the Rafale was intended as a replacement for the F-8(FN), Super Etenard and 7 other types of aircraft in service with the french navy, later on, they expanded its requirements into replacement of the Mirages that the AdA had in service as well. As such, it can do anything from A2A to precision groundbombing to Carrying cruise missiles, APACHE missiles, Excocets, SEAD and is an integral part to the French Force de Frappe. the second thing is, people tend to forget the Rafale's software has been designed with that idea in mind. (and i am a big fan of the datalinking the Rafale has) The fact its french is both a good thing and a bad thing. Its good since the French are known to be reliable suppliers of high quality military hardware, and as such, unless you are directly interfering with French interests, you are pretty much set to get your items regardless of what is happenning. (its part of why India went with the Rafale over the Typhoon, given that the French have, since the 60s been important suppliers to India, even during conflict (Kargill is the most recent one IIRC). The downside is that since its completely French, getting spares from anywhere except France is hard, and tends to drive the price up as well. (even though it ain't shoddy goods) For the Phoon, its been designed initially as an interceptor (and that is the reason the French dropped out of the programme). And while it later has gotten more diversification in its roles, its still a bit limited. (IIRC in libya, it needed Tornado's to buddy laser for it), and as such, even though later blocs might rectify this, the same can be said of the Rafale. No, A2A is the place where the Typhoon shines, it has a top notch HMD, it can supercruise, (most can, but its faster then both the Rafale and F-35 in that aspect, is adequately fast, and carries sufficient payload for it, and its coupled with a powerful radar. The great thing on the supply side is that it mostly uses US kit for weapons, which is a good thing since the US is nearly everywhere. So in the end, it isn't the question of which one is better. The question is which one is better suited to any mission it must undertake. The Rafale is more versatile, but the Phoon is better in certain area's and makes concessions to that in others. Link to comment
Looney Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 Dont forget the political tally in all this. One if the reason the Dutch chose that awfully expensive JSF is the counter orders Holland will receive once we get the plane. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Commodore 64 | MOS6510 | VIC-II | SID6581 | DD 1541 | KCS Power Cartridge | 64Kb | 32Kb external | Arcade Turbo Link to comment
Davy_Flament Posted September 17, 2015 Share Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) Our government (Belgian) has to decide next year between the Super Hornet, Eurofighter, Rafale, Gripen and F35. Knowing about some military events in our country being 'accidentaly' sponsored by Lockheed Martin, I wonder what their choice will be :-S Damn Lobby Edited September 17, 2015 by Davy_Flament Davy 'Bad Karma' Flament. AMD Phenom X4 965, 10Gb RAM, XFX HD7970 3gb, HOTAS Warthog. Link to comment
Celestiale Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Percentage of wins in a 1v1 BVR against Su-35. Should pretty much answer how effective it will be. This chart is from the DERA EFA is the Eurofighter of course Link to comment
Ktulu2 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 I don't know what the DERA is, but I surely doubt any chart comparing NATO aircrafts to russian ones has any reliability, I guess this is a simulation of some sort... I do DCS videos on youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAs8VxtXRJHZLnKS4mKunnQ?view_as=public Link to comment
Ells228 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Defence Evaluation and Research Agency ;) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Evaluation_and_Research_Agency Link to comment
Ktulu2 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Well...Nevermind what I said! lol I do DCS videos on youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAs8VxtXRJHZLnKS4mKunnQ?view_as=public Link to comment
*Rage* Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 Really?? Su35 outperforms the Typhoon and F22 in BVR according to the DERA? I find that hard to believe. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 64th "Scorpions" Aggressor Squadron Discord: 64th Aggressor Squadron TS: 195.201.110.22 Link to comment
red_coreSix Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 It doesn't, you read the graph wrong lol Link to comment
Ktulu2 Posted October 16, 2015 Share Posted October 16, 2015 It's not what it says, for the F22, It says that an F22 has a 91% chance of winning against a sukhoi I do DCS videos on youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAs8VxtXRJHZLnKS4mKunnQ?view_as=public Link to comment
lokodehortaleza Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 EFA & YF-22? The graph must be 15-20 years old... Enviado desde mi LG-D855 mediante Tapatalk Link to comment
Spectre11 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Guys that graph is from the early 90s and based on simulations. Shouldn't be taken to seriously as the threat aircraft was an upgraded Su-27 similar to the old Su-35 (Su-27M) and as most of the types in the evaluation were still in development. The data base for that simulation had to cope with these limitations. Overall it's certainly not representative. Link to comment
fixen Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 What is that F-15F? Is that the agile eagle (NF-15B, research aircraft) or the export downgraded F-15E for saudi arabia sometimes refered to as F-15F (which would be weird scoring a higher win rate than the F-15C) or something else? Link to comment
Spectre11 Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 F-15F was a fictional single seat F-15E considered back then. Link to comment
Ultra Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 I'm glad I started this thread, it makes for a very good read! Keep it up guys it's all still very interesting. :thumbup: Also, for mission ideas for the future, I think an outnumbered all-Typhoon air defense against mixed forces (of a bunch of other types of planes) strategic bombing attempts with A-A cover would make for a fun Multiplayer mission. It would have to be very cooperative and organized though, maybe a Red Flag event or something. Example: Pure Typhoon team VS. Mig-21's + M2000's + F-18's doing the strikes and self-defense, with mixed SU-27's + F-15's + F-18's providing A-A cover 1 Link to comment
lokodehortaleza Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 Yep that would be interesting, limited slots of Typhoon defending against unlimited slots of everything else. I'd like to see that as a special event in the 104th server, with the 104th guys being the Typhoon force. That would be a nasty meat grinder for OpFor! Link to comment
greco.bernardi Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I think that will not be a problem. FC3 is the entry level to DCS World. Anyone that fly at some time at DCS will want to get some "hard core" module (full real DCS modules). Anyway pilots skills is more important than planes all time. Link to comment
jay43 Posted October 25, 2015 Share Posted October 25, 2015 I have seen no fighter in youtube or any air shows, making the maneuvers that SU-35 and the Russian fighters do, show me only one video of EFT and I will show you thousands of russian planes doing better You are quite right no one could show you a video of any western fighter doing those insanely dangerous maneuvers, but i can show you plenty of videos showing them crashing when performing maneuvers like that, and i would bet there are only a handful of Russian pilots that can carry out such maneuvers. Eagles may soar high but weasel's don't get sucked into jet engines. System Spec. Monitors: Samsung 570DX & Rift CV1 Mobo: MSI Godlike gaming X-99A CPU: Intel i7 5930K @ 3.50Ghz RAM: 32gb GPU: EVGA Nvidia GTX 980Ti VR Ready Cooling: Predator 360 Power Supply: OCZ ZX Series 80 Plus Gold Drives: Samsung SSD's 1tb, 500g plus others with OS Win10 64 bit Link to comment
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