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DCS Mirage 2000C Discussion


Bluedrake42

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So these horizontal lines appear further down the snake, towards it's tail, if the distance is greater, correct?

 

And ... where does that range information come from? Radar?

 

Radar or static setup. It does have distance selector knob that you can use, which you can see in the video.

 

Now you understand why it is hard to make one for FSX.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."

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Fascinating isn't it that so many methods have been developed just for this one thing... Telling you where to point the nose to hit that target.

 

Actually these are more advanced than that. The old collimated gunsights of WWII and Korea were telling you were to point the nose of the aircraft. These tell you where the bullets are going to hit so you only have to put the enemy aircraft were the bullet stream is going to be. No need for the nose of the aircraft to point at the target.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."

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WWII pilots used their mind and intuition to anticipate what is currently drawed in the HUD and computed by onboard systems. But that were not same aircrafts, with high speed and manoeuvrability...

 

To be fair modern jets have a much higher rate of fire and bullet caliber than WW2 aircraft - With no HUD in a modern jet, you can hit your target a couple of times and he's toast, while in a prop aircraft you need to put more bullets on target, and with the lower RoF he can sometimes "slip under" the bullets even though your gunnery is correct.

...that's why I'm terrible at IL-2 :)

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To be fair modern jets have a much higher rate of fire and bullet caliber than WW2 aircraft - With no HUD in a modern jet, you can hit your target a couple of times and he's toast, while in a prop aircraft you need to put more bullets on target, and with the lower RoF he can sometimes "slip under" the bullets even though your gunnery is correct.

...that's why I'm terrible at IL-2 :)

 

The higher caliber is a function of the higher velocity of jet fighters. A 0.5 inch bullet used by a WWII and Korean aircraft, travels above the speed of sound. The velocity difference between the bullet and a WWII aircraft is such that the bullet kinetic energy was more than enough to assure catastrophic damage.

On Korea, the Mig-15 was so fast, that the 0.5 inch bullet did not had enough kinetic energy to seriously damage the aircraft thus needing more bullets to do the job. On the other hand, the 20 mm bullet is heavier and travels faster and can do the job handedly.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."

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Modern larger caliber often is an explosive "cannon bullet" today, so much of the damage is done by the explosive force and shrapnel...

The normal machine Gun ammo WW II or even in the 60ies was standard kinetic rounds.

Shagrat

 

- Flying Sims since 1984 -:pilotfly:

Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B  | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore)

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Modern larger caliber often is an explosive "cannon bullet" today, so much of the damage is done by the explosive force and shrapnel...

The normal machine Gun ammo WW II or even in the 60ies was standard kinetic rounds.

Probably both aspects play a role here: .50 cal has less kinetic energy when fired from a faster plane due to higher drag at high speeds and thus were considered ineffective. Larger calibers are not as much affected by this ... and luckily also provide enough room for a decent explosive charge.

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They still issue armor-piercing / semi-AP rounds to 20/25/27/30mm fighter guns, so you still want the rounds to have some kinetic energy when they hit the target.


Edited by emg
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From a gun “horsepower” standpoint, one 20 mm cannon is equivalent to three .50-caliber machine guns. The 20 will go through .75 inch of armor at 500 yards, while the .50 cal will go through only .43. Also noted that the cannon barrel is not as susceptible to being damaged with long bursts like the machine gun’s.

 

There are disadvantages, of course, the time of flight of the 20 mm shell is longer, .75 second for 500 yards as compared to .62 second for a .50 caliber bullet. The 20 mm installation is also heavier, one half as much ammunition for the same weight. The 20 is lethal enough to get far more results out of that 200 rounds than the .50 ever will get out of the 400 rounds.

Speed is life !!!

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Probably both aspects play a role here: .50 cal has less kinetic energy when fired from a faster plane due to higher drag at high speeds and thus were considered ineffective. Larger calibers are not as much affected by this ... and luckily also provide enough room for a decent explosive charge.

Yes, of course. The explosives just make sure it devastates the other plane after penetrating the hull.

Modern jets often have virtually no area of the plane that isn't covered with some more or less vital component. A hit from a bullet or two might have passed through the wing tank and the self sealing of the fuel tank works.

An explosive charge ensures it rips a hole that is not so easy to self heal and/or may be you get shrapnel damage to the aileron and/or flaps in addition (just an example)

Yet, the higher the velocity and the kinetic energy the higher the chance to hit in the first place and even penetrate armored areas of a say A-10...

I'm not 100% sure, but to my knowledge A-A Gun munitions are usually all explosives, A-G still feature Armor piercing/explosive mix, usually in gun pods etc.

 

Fighter jet guns should use only HE shells?

Shagrat

 

- Flying Sims since 1984 -:pilotfly:

Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B  | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore)

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Fighter jet guns should use only HE shells?

It's pretty common to use "semi-AP" multipurpose rounds, like the standard USAF 20mm ammo called PGU-28/B.

It's like a normal HE-I round but with a thick, pointy nose cone (there's no sabot penetrator) and the fuze is delayed so the round has time to penetrate before it explodes.

 

So impact energy is more relevant for this round, than for a "pure" thin-skinned HE shell exploding on contact or by proximity fuze.

 

There's also a newish ammo type called PELE or FAP(...) or FAPDS, basically a shell containing a sabot penetrator followed by metal balls/shrapnel like in a claymore. No explosives, uses impact energy to spread hot shrapnel. Some of the Gripen nations use it as their standard ammo for a2a and a2g.


Edited by emg
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Any new updates on this wonderful bird?

Not at this moment. We are having some RL stuff, including internet problems, that have slowed us quite a bit. We expect to resume our former development speed end of this week or middle of the next.

"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

"The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea."

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Not at this moment. We are having some RL stuff, including internet problems, that have slowed us quite a bit. We expect to resume our former development speed end of this week or middle of the next.

get overlapping internet providers we are happy to stand for the cost ^^

 

25c28c033d3e6c163ff67d3c5abd72dde33bc13e44321242d332b37e68d23284.jpg

Im always Incredibly eager for any update on this aircraft =>


Edited by mattebubben
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Get serious guys, this thing is never going to see the light of day :/

 

Razbam is the only 3rd party who hasn't been canned that hasn't released an aircraft, or even shown serious progress in this one

 

Yes, you are right. They have never developed any aircraft, including the Mirage, for other flight sims, and they have never posted in this very thread pictures of the current cockpit implementation with working instruments, HUD and displays :music_whistling:

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Get serious guys, this thing is never going to see the light of day :/

 

Razbam is the only 3rd party who hasn't been canned that hasn't released an aircraft, or even shown serious progress in this one

 

Maybe you should have skimmed the past 10 pages of this thread before making such an uninformed post.


Edited by emg
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Yes, you are right. They have never developed any aircraft, including the Mirage, for other flight sims, and they have never posted in this very thread pictures of the current cockpit implementation with working instruments, HUD and displays :music_whistling:

...and there are no progress videos in this very thread, either, which could at least proof it already works in DCS. Nor do we have a shooting range video from Zeus testing the rockets.

Did he read the thread or just jumped in to troll?

Shagrat

 

- Flying Sims since 1984 -:pilotfly:

Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B  | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore)

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