howie87 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 You're saying that the devs will ignore the available data? Is an F-18E an F-35A? The USN and USAF don't exactly share the same secrecy process, but it takes a while working with this stuff to actually find this out. Further, the superhornet was intended almost exclusively for the USN. If you read my uninformed statements correctly I said I'n Do you have access to the basic data required to make a realistic flight model for a flanker? What about an F-16 or an eagle? An F-4? More to the point, while I know where to get at least some of that info, you might have never seen it and maybe you never will. Based on that, how can you say anything about this particular project? The A-10C development used documentation that I never got to see my self, and you won't either. You think it was 'just IFF and ECM'? ... you think classified data is needed to model IFF? My bottom line is this, really: Your statements are uninformed. If you read my uninformed statements correctly you would see that: "I'm NOT saying that it WON'T be realistic within the realms of the available data" No, the F/A-18E is not an F35A but there is probably more public data available for it. ED still does not think there is enough however. And yes, Falcon BMS is an example of an excellent F-16 flight model based on publicly available data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q800 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) thats a very strange attitude from someone who is also developing a DCS module, I will be thinking twice about purchasing yours. Yeah sure. If there's any module released at all, you'll be the first to bring money in your theeth, without asking any questions. Edited June 17, 2013 by q800 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted June 17, 2013 ED Team Share Posted June 17, 2013 Well lets hope they can persuade Lockheed to let a test pilot fly their sim and comment on that ;) Agreed, careful analysis of the geometry would results decent results for the bare airframe vehicle dynamics...the issues is that there is this massive FCS controller that goes between the Pilot stick and the Bare airframe that completely alters the control laws and resultant control response for a given pilot input vs. "stick and rudder" flying. Getting the airframe right might not be too bad, but getting the right feel of those FCS controls laws might prove tricky, but we'll see! Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudikoff Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 The third-party Dev in question can tell us NOW how accurate it is going to be. Have they done so? Just a note to that - when asking for their statement on this on a scale of 0-10 (or percentage), you should also provide a frame of reference, e.g. compared to DCS: A-10C for instance (don't know what that would be exactly, like 6, 7, 8, 9 or whatever depending on an unestablished criteria on how much a particular feature weighs, how accurate it is and what relevant features are not included). i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg. DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?). Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159th_Viper Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Just a note to that - when asking for their statement on this on a scale of 0-10 (or percentage), you should also provide a frame of reference, e.g. compared to DCS: A-10C for instance (don't know what that would be exactly, like 6, 7, 8, 9 or whatever depending on an unestablished criteria on how much a particular feature weighs, how accurate it is and what relevant features are not included). Yes, quite so. For the sake of argument let's agree that we'll afford the A-10C a benchmark of 8.5/10, or 85% - I'm happy with that in the absence of formal clarification to the contrary. One can even be a wee bitty more pernickety and request clarification on Flight Model Fidelity vs Avionics and Systems as it goes without saying that the percentage is considerably higher as it pertains to Flight Model Fidelity in the A-10C. More to the point, the third-party Devs here have just been that wee bitty too vague so as to properly facilitate one from formulating an educated opinion one way or another and that in itself is worrisome to say the least. Eagerly awaiting the kickstarter description and sales-pitch which I hope is not as 'lean' as the info to date. 1 Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ells228 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Awesome guys, all the best of luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted June 17, 2013 ED Team Share Posted June 17, 2013 Eagerly awaiting the kickstarter description and sales-pitch which I hope is not as 'lean' as the info to date. Agreed, interesting to see if they will be able to give anymore info for this... Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team BIGNEWY Posted June 17, 2013 ED Team Share Posted June 17, 2013 I recommend TI get a tin foil hat, mine works Good luck with this crowd :lol: Forum rules - DCS Crashing? Try this first - Cleanup and Repair - Discord BIGNEWY#8703 - Youtube - Patch Status Windows 11, NVIDIA MSI RTX 3090, Intel® i9-10900K 3.70GHz, 5.30GHz Turbo, Corsair Hydro Series H150i Pro, 64GB DDR @3200, ASUS ROG Strix Z490-F Gaming, HP Reverb G2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159th_Viper Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I recommend TI get a tin foil hat, mine works Good luck with this crowd :lol: Honesty and Forthrightness.......that's all that is needed. Anything else and a tin-foil hat will seem woefully inadequate :D 1 Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 LOL. I find it quite amusing that people are so happy with the A-10C given the number of systems/weapons that are heavily simplified or flat out not modelled, and yet the prospect of the same thing for a Lightning II is somehow so objectionable. 1 Spoiler Intel 13900K (5Ghz), 64Gb 6400Mhz, MSi RTX 3090, Schiit Modi/Magi DAC/AMP, ASUS PG43UQ, Hotas Warthog, RealSimulator FSSB3, 2x TM MFDs + DCS MFDs, MFG Crosswinds, Elgato Steamdeck XL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeKilla Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 LOL. I find it quite amusing that people are so happy with the A-10C given the number of systems/weapons that are heavily simplified or flat out not modelled, and yet the prospect of the same thing for a Lightning II is somehow so objectionable. +1 Thought that myself. :thumbup: :joystick: YouTube :pilotfly: TimeKilla on Flight Sims over at YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159th_Viper Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I find it quite amusing that people are so happy with the A-10C given the number of systems/weapons that are heavily simplified or flat out not modelled, and yet the prospect of the same thing for a Lightning II is somehow so objectionable. Now that the veil of ignorance is lifted we can maybe authoratitively find out just how much of the A-10C's systems are actually modelled, if only to facilitate a benchmark of sorts to pin down what accords with a DCS tag. Are you in a position to comment on that? Put a percentage to the speculation? Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted June 17, 2013 ED Team Share Posted June 17, 2013 LOL. I find it quite amusing that people are so happy with the A-10C given the number of systems/weapons that are heavily simplified or flat out not modelled, and yet the prospect of the same thing for a Lightning II is somehow so objectionable. Well that would be because most of us wouldnt know the difference between real world A-10 systems and what we got... but apparently most of us would be able to tell the difference when it comes to the F-35 :) Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Now that the veil of ignorance is lifted we can maybe authoratitively find out just how much of the A-10C's systems are actually modelled, if only to facilitate a benchmark of sorts to pin down what accords with a DCS tag. Are you in a position to comment on that? Put a percentage to the speculation? Well, now lets see, a quick "off the top of my head" list. Systems that are either not modelled or have at least some degree of simplification and/or "game" modelling (some of the below will be down to limited dev resources and/or known bugs). SADL/JTRS DSMS IFFCC Electronic Warfare/Countermeasures TAD IFF Radios (Crypto/Havequick) Maverick JDAM WCMD Unguided Rockets LUU-2 LITENING AT Engines Hydraulics Environmental Control System Putting a percentage value on it. No more than 70%. Spoiler Intel 13900K (5Ghz), 64Gb 6400Mhz, MSi RTX 3090, Schiit Modi/Magi DAC/AMP, ASUS PG43UQ, Hotas Warthog, RealSimulator FSSB3, 2x TM MFDs + DCS MFDs, MFG Crosswinds, Elgato Steamdeck XL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metheluckydonut Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I wonder what will happen if the kickstarter fails to reach its goal. DCS Wishlist: Ka 26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Well, now lets see, a quick "off the top of my head" list. Systems that are either not modelled or have at least some degree of simplification and/or "game" modelling (some of the below will be down to limited dev resources and/or known bugs). ... No more than 70%. How much of that is due to 'classified information' and how much due to the impracticality of attempting to run the fully modeled systems on a home PC or is the limitation the time/cost to produce the code compared to what you can sell the product for. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159th_Falcon Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 LOL. I find it quite amusing that people are so happy with the A-10C given the number of systems/weapons that are heavily simplified or flat out not modelled, and yet the prospect of the same thing for a Lightning II is somehow so objectionable. Maybe it doesn't help that ED, Testers and Mods themselves said it was not possible just months ago? BECAUSE: data is not possible to get, classified, yada yada yada. How often didn't we get to hear that in the infamous wishlist threads. What also doesn't help is that people in this thread say sufficient data is publicly available. I have yet to see ANY links. I'm looking forward to the terrain development of this DEV though. Along whit possible network code tweaks, cause they seem to be quite keen on the multilayer side of things. Maybe call the F35 and FC level plane, and i might start believing. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] The keeper of all mathematical knowledge and the oracle of flight modeling.:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cichlidfan Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I wonder what will happen if the kickstarter fails to reach its goal. Unless the goal is stupidly high, I predict them passing the goal by a very wide margin. ASUS ROG Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700K, Noctua NH-D14 Cooler, Crucial 32GB DDR4 2133, Samsung 950 Pro NVMe 256GB, Samsung EVO 250GB & 500GB SSD, 2TB Caviar Black, Zotac GTX 1080 AMP! Extreme 8GB, Corsair HX1000i, Phillips BDM4065UC 40" 4k monitor, VX2258 TouchScreen, TIR 5 w/ProClip, TM Warthog, VKB Gladiator Pro, Saitek X56, et. al., MFG Crosswind Pedals #1199, VolairSim Pit, Rift CV1 :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Busutil Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 This thread needs less whining and more pictures... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Checkout my user files here: https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/?CREATED_BY=Mike%20Busutil&set_filter=Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159th_Viper Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 ........ Putting a percentage value on it. No more than 70%. Cheers Eddie Now if the F-35 Devs can match that figure of 70% I dare say we have nothing to complain about it bearing the DCS-tag. Eagerly awaiting confirmation either way. Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
159th_Falcon Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Well, now lets see, a quick "off the top of my head" list. Systems that are either not modelled or have at least some degree of simplification and/or "game" modelling (some of the below will be down to limited dev resources and/or known bugs). SADL/JTRS DSMS IFFCC Electronic Warfare/Countermeasures TAD IFF Radios (Crypto/Havequick) Maverick JDAM WCMD Unguided Rockets LUU-2 LITENING AT Engines Hydraulics Environmental Control System Putting a percentage value on it. No more than 70%. Really, yet when people asked before this F35 announcement, they were let to believe how well modeled everything is in the A10C. Down to aerodynamics, engine performance, hydraulic and electrical system. Failures were apparently not a part of weapon A hitting part H but due to elaborate damage and systems modelling. Down to the electrical current being drawn by systems etc etc. So now then, what is it. Option A, as realistic as we were always let to believe Option B, an elaborate and ever changing scam that the publisher changes the definition of throughout its live cycle's to what suite's there needs best at that given time. Option C,..................... [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] The keeper of all mathematical knowledge and the oracle of flight modeling.:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exorcet Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 What Eddie describes sounds like option A to me. DCS is very realistic. But it's still a simulator, not a remote desktop connection to an A-10C. Awaiting: DCS F-15C Win 10 i5-9600KF 4.6 GHz 64 GB RAM RTX2080Ti 11GB -- Win 7 64 i5-6600K 3.6 GHz 32 GB RAM GTX970 4GB -- A-10C, F-5E, Su-27, F-15C, F-14B, F-16C missions in User Files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) The A-10C is still by far the most accurate representation of a modern military combat aircraft to date. Very little of what isn't there is classified. It mostly a mix of there simply not being enough time /resources for ED to implement such things or the USAF/US DoD not allowing things to be implemented in the commercial product. Every single system I mentioned could be modelled based on public information/physics/common sense, if the dev resources were there and the USAF/US DoD allowed it. The point is, as has always been said. If I, or anyone else, tells you system X is realistic how would you know any different? At the end of the day, as long as the implementation is plausible and maintains the suspension of disbelief it's fine. Question for you, looking at that list of systems that are not modelled/simplified I posted before, can anyone tell me why/how they are simplified? I'd be willing to bet the number of people on these forums that could is barely in double digits. There is nothing that makes me think the same could not be achieved with the F-35. Edited June 17, 2013 by Eddie 1 Spoiler Intel 13900K (5Ghz), 64Gb 6400Mhz, MSi RTX 3090, Schiit Modi/Magi DAC/AMP, ASUS PG43UQ, Hotas Warthog, RealSimulator FSSB3, 2x TM MFDs + DCS MFDs, MFG Crosswinds, Elgato Steamdeck XL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle13 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Hi again to all. I would to once again make it clear that I have dedicated myself and my company to bringing the joy of military aviation to as many as possible... when the dust settles we still fly together for the joy of it. I was hoping that an announcement of a new module for DCS would bring us all closer together as a community. FYI - I was in VT-10, VT-86, VMFA-531, MAG-11, VFC-13, and HC-9 might have been a couple of military cockpits mixed into that group... not to mention hundreds of hours in both the B-2 and F-22 developmental simulators. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkateZilla Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 LOL. I find it quite amusing that people are so happy with the A-10C given the number of systems/weapons that are heavily simplified or flat out not modelled, and yet the prospect of the same thing for a Lightning II is somehow so objectionable. ^This Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2), ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9) 3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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