Working BVR tactic against modern targets

Hello guys!

After many many test I found some usefull tactic with e M2K and his missiles.

I made this tutorial and tests because I like this aircraft and Ive seen many people struglin with it!

This tactics have been tested in a SP enviorement with 90% chance of winning in a 1V1 Scenario. In MP is at least at 35% chance of winning (Consider this as a very high numbers in the beta test of the aircraft and Radar against better missiles and radars)

This was done against russian aircraft

There are more values that can work or not, so here is it, is not 100% exact

First of all, you need to get speed, always, think your plane like a slingshot, you need to get impuse of your missiles.

Modern Targets

High Height. (28.000 feet to 48.000 feet)

Eastern Figthers (R27 ER / R27R / R40R / R3R etc)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPuu5J_dOLI&feature=youtu.be[/ame]

-This Height is the best for this plane an missiles.

The optimal settings I found are these:

-Radar in 30 degrees scan

-Target Memory on (Right)

-Lock your target using RDO mode, it will autolock, then press lock againt to PIC (STT)

-Enable your Jammer.

-Shoot at 21/20 Miles

-If you doing good, two missiles, friendly and enemy must be in the air.

-At the last part of the combat, he may break down, this will give your IR missiles advantage

With all of this, you must expect the enemy to launch before than you, you will have no notice, but with the Jammer, the R27ER will launch at around 30 Miles.

Dont change your course! Never!, you must stare at your target (Remember is a 1v1 enviorement) and if you notice something out of the square lock, like a dot, if you suspect is the missile, comence with the maneuouvers! use the roll, you will lose not much speed, but the missile, out of fuel will bleed its speed!

When doing this take the Square as the boresight! roll around it while dropping flares!

you will see the missile aproach, keep roling at it will fail.

Now we are on a good terrain, first of all, you need to get closer and closer to your target. at this state you should be at 15/10 miles if he hadnt change his course., Shoot your other S530D.

That will keep enemy busy and still maneouvering , your first missile is almost empty of energy.

And when you close enough, shoot your Magics, if you see the enemy is turning towards you, shoot if you can, make him turn and finish him later.

Western Figthers (Aim 120C/B / Aim 7)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X-zr8IKrkE&feature=youtu.be[/ame]

The tricks here were these

-Get more Height than him, his 120 are very high

-Maximize the Speed in an extreme

-At range of 25 Miles of him, Enable ECM and trust in speed for incoming missiles (This will help, if his missiles are on pitbull)

-At 25 Miles also dive to his level or maintin if he had climbed, maximize the speed

- Dont give him a centimeter of relax! push to him!

-When you are very close, attack with the force of a Train, dont change course, head on, your speed and chaff will help to evade the incoming missiles

-Luck

-You must see much times the Radar display, IA usually changes course and speed when shooting 120, in this Test I make like if was Human

Low Height

Eastern Figthers

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPwWvW0L648[/ame]

- For low Height targets you must use your missiles in max range, even if you know is not going to hit him. (The Suer 530D will have deceased his range to 10 Miles instead of 20)

- Every time he locks you, try to shoot, if you see a missile, use the roll maneouver

- Dont stay too low.

-Bleed his speed as much as you can

- Finish him with Ir or cannon

-If necesary (In MP enviorement) Launch your IR without lock, he will turn back and will prevent him for sooting an IR

Old Targets

Against these targets it is the same as modern, but your missile should get to him faster than his missile

Eastern Figthers

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTgLbRT5fyQ[/ame]

-In this mode you can shot in Max range without problems.

-If the target maneouvers, use roll to keep him on your radar cone

-Drop chaff as you get closer, he may shoot.

- Chaff and enemy ECM no as effective as modern ones against S530 and radar lost

This is WIP and not works 100% of the time but close, may change with updates!

I hope I helped! Sorry for my English!

Just add tips if you know!

Thanks for these. Kind of weird to just roll into an oncoming missile instead of cranking, but hey if it works Ill take it. One question, what do you mean by 'old' targets?

Thanks for these. Kind of weird to just roll into an oncoming missile instead of cranking, but hey if it works Ill take it. One question, what do you mean by 'old' targets?

From Triplane to Mig 23/25 :)

I will put a list later on if you want!

Currently there is no point switching the radar to 30 degrees scan azimuth, its not modelled, its currently locked to 60 degrees.

Currently there is no point switching the radar to 30 degrees scan azimuth, its not modelled, its currently locked to 60 degrees.

Im not sure, I cant see targets in 30 degrees and I can see them at 60 degrees (on the corners) the thing that doesent work is the azimuth

I don't think ECM is modelled yet either

Thanks for your tips and your dedication to help other fellow simmers :)

I have a question, is rolling without changing course really effecting in bleeding g the missile from its range?

To me it doesn't make sense, the radar doesn't see that you are rolling. It only sees you flying in one direction and depending on speed calculates an interception course. If you roll and don't change anything the missile will, should fly straight to you without bleeding energy.

If truly in DCS the missile will roll with you, I believe it should be a bug and I personally wouldn't want to take advantage of it.

I may be wrong.

I don't think ECM is modelled yet either

I think it is, I was being jammed by enemy player Mirages in the MiG-21 last night.

Im not sure, I cant see targets in 30 degrees and I can see them at 60 degrees (on the corners) the thing that doesent work is the azimuth

Theres a radar thread in which Zeus has commented its not yet implemented, meaning the switch does nothing, the radar azimuth stays at 60 degrees, also the bar settings do nothing its set on 4 bar.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2617472#post2617472

Theres a radar thread in which Zeus has commented its not yet implemented, meaning the switch does nothing, the radar azimuth stays at 60 degrees, also the bar settings do nothing its set on 4 bar.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2617472#post2617472

In the video you can see atleast, it works graphicaly

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfqbXq2HARM&feature=youtu.be[/ame]

I don't think ECM is modelled yet either

ECM works right now like an FC3 Aircrfat

Graphically yes, all its doing is changing the display, your radar is still scanning the whole 60 degree azimuth.

You're just seeing less of the scan, still getting the same speed results for the return and scan pattern of the 60 degrees.

Thanks for your tips and your dedication to help other fellow simmers :)

I have a question, is rolling without changing course really effecting in bleeding g the missile from its range?

To me it doesn't make sense, the radar doesn't see that you are rolling. It only sees you flying in one direction and depending on speed calculates an interception course. If you roll and don't change anything the missile will, should fly straight to you without bleeding energy.

If truly in DCS the missile will roll with you, I believe it should be a bug and I personally wouldn't want to take advantage of it.

 

I may be wrong.

I dont know how it behaves iRL, in the sim, this is what happens when you roll, as you can see, there are intervals

It loses energy and speed somewhat faster

Graphically yes, all its doing is changing the display, your radar is still scanning the whole 60 degree azimuth.

You're just seeing less of the scan, still getting the same speed results for the return and scan pattern of the 60 degrees.

Ok then! looks like I misunderstood it!, anyway, the 30 degrees should work fine whit this tactic when its updated

I dont know how it behaves iRL, in the sim, this is what happens when you roll

 

 

It loses energy and speed somewhat faster

 

 

 

Ok then! looks like I misunderstood it!, anyway, the 30 degrees should work fine whit this tactic when its updated

I believe that it's like this in the sim but from the principle of how a radar works it shouldn't behave like this. From the literature I have read, rolling is never mentioned as a maneuver.

I believe it is a bug. It should be reported.

I believe that it's like this in the sim but from the principle of how a radar works it shouldn't behave like this. From the literature I have read, rolling is never mentioned as a maneuver.

 

I believe it is a bug. It should be reported.

Well, the missile dont "roll" it just follow the heading of the plane as you should know, the fact is that when you roll, you make constat heading change, that it is minimal but drags the missile faster than a normal glide

Here you can see it

This combined with the chaff is very effective, but only using the M2k, an F15 will drag itself and is slower when rolling

Ok then! looks like I misunderstood it!, anyway, the 30 degrees should work fine whit this tactic when its updated

Definitely, also when that and the bar feature is implemented so you can use more 4,2 or 1 bar searches etc it will mean differing speed results etc.

Well, the missile dont "roll" it just follow the heading of the plane as you should know, the fact is that when you roll, you make constat heading change, that it is minimal but drags the missile faster than a normal glide

 

Here you can see it

 

This combined with the chaff is very effective, but only using the M2k, an F15 will drag itself and is slower when rolling

It could be that you slightly change the heading and slightly bleed the missile a bit. But don't you think if you pull some Gs you would be more effective? Of course while still keeping track of the bandit and have him in sight

I believe that it's like this in the sim but from the principle of how a radar works it shouldn't behave like this. From the literature I have read, rolling is never mentioned as a maneuver.

 

I believe it is a bug. It should be reported.

Missile Defense usually centered around actual changes in direction for a period of time to allow the missile to start a turn, so I'm suspect as well. The missile might be tracking more than it should, maybe? Following the slight oscillations during the roll?

Barrel rolling is a thing, but I don't think being illuminated in a stationary bearing should help.

It could be that you slightly change the heading and slightly bleed the missile a bit. But don't you think if you pull some Gs you would be more effective? Of course while still keeping track of the bandit and have him in sight

With the M2k, you must get closer and closer, use every speed and maintain it while you can.

If you make sharp turns, may you outturn the missile, but in most of the casses you will lose lock and IA is going to shoot another one, this time, you are Doomed without speed, M2k loses it very fast when turning.

Missile Defense usually centered around actual changes in direction for a period of time to allow the missile to start a turn, so I'm suspect as well. The missile might be tracking more than it should, maybe? Following the slight oscillations during the roll?

 

Barrel rolling is a thing, but I don't think being illuminated in a stationary bearing should help.

Yes. If I started rolling far away, the missile dont notice, but, I spot the missile with my eyes, in a range that the roll it is somewhat effective.

Maybe is Overmade or Undermade, we dont know, I just used the best tactic in facts of what we have now

With the M2k, you must get closer and closer, use every speed and maintain it while you can.

 

 

 

If you make sharp turns, may you outturn the missile, but in most of the casses you will lose lock and IA is going to shoot another one, this time, you are Doomed without speed, M2k loses it very fast when turning.

Fair enough. I am taking about theory, I am still stuck in holidays and can't wait to got my hands on the bird and try your tactics! One more sleep.

Fair enough. I am taking about theory, I am still stuck in holidays and can't wait to got my hands on the bird and try your tactics! One more sleep.

Dont worry! is my pleasure to talk about this tings! I love testing and Theorys to see! Good luck! you will love this bird!

Theres a radar thread in which Zeus has commented its not yet implemented, meaning the switch does nothing, the radar azimuth stays at 60 degrees, also the bar settings do nothing its set on 4 bar.

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2617472#post2617472

Azimuth and bars work. What is not working is moving the antenna manually.

I stand corrected

I missunderstood what you said in the thread I linked to then.

Azimuth and bars work. What is not working is moving the antenna manually.

Thanks for the info Zeus, It was strange I had better lock success with touching these settings than leaving it normal.

I was going crazy I thought :doh:

Azimuth and bars work. What is not working is moving the antenna manually.

Hi Zeus,

As you said and il_corleone demonstrated the 530D requires launch from very high. It's critical to have the manual elevation of the radar functional. When you think this feature will be implemented? Is it planned for the next update ?

I made it!

I killed an F15 in BVR! is a very hard work!

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X-zr8IKrkE&feature=youtu.be[/ame]

The tricks here were these

-Get more Height than him, his 120 are very high

-Maximize the Speed in an extreme

-At range of 25 Miles of him, Enable ECM and trust in speed for incoming missiles (This will help, if his missiles are on pitbull)

-At 25 Miles also dive to his level or maintin if he had climbed, maximize the speed

- Dont give him a centimeter of relax! push to him!

-When you are very close, attack with the force of a Train, dont change course, head on, your speed and chaff will help to evade the incoming missiles

-Luck

-You must see much times the Radar display, IA usually changes course and speed when shooting 120, in this Test I make like if was Human

This works 1/3 Times be aware!

(Im starting to fear what good Mirage pilots can do in a High Height enviorement)