72"

Wait wait wait. For years, max MAP we were getting from engine working in WEP condition was 67", hence the whole argument on the forums. Crumpp got 72 once, but it turned out to be some glitch.

Now another fellow says he gets 72. Some unplanned feature of the recent updates? Legion, which game version did You notice that reading in?

In a recent dogfight with the IA I was hit by a 109 that broke my MAP regulator. Or at least is what I though as all of a sudden I was able to get 70"+. Actually I had to throttle back in order to keep the engine within parameters.

Obviously I had some serious fun as, in short bursts of high boost (I feared blowing the engine), I was able to follow the IA 109s in their favourite trick of climbing away out of range.

So basically it lets you go higher power for longer? or am I misunderstanding?

I'm just wondering because I know I'm able to push the mp up to 70-72" in game already so I was wondering what the big deal was with this fuel.

I am sure the only time you can get to 72'hg is when either your gauge or your MAP sensor is damaged and it actually doesnt mean much.

Our P-51D is able of max 67'hg at WEP.

I am sure the only time you can get to 72'hg is when either your gauge or your MAP sensor is damaged and it actually doesnt mean much.

 

Our P-51D is able of max 67'hg at WEP.

Ah ok, that must have been what it was, I'll test it out sometime just to see if I can recreate the situation.

We do know the topic. We don't have final decision. What I can say now is that we will make proper "european" configuration of the plane. And MAY BE we could update its engine at that time. Now our efforts are all about Spitfire.

will this also include removal of the double antenna mast and the mast under the plane? from what i know this was used in the pacific theatre not europe.

will this also include removal of the double antenna mast and the mast under the plane? from what i know this was used in the pacific theatre not europe.

Racoon has already answered that question. A european block 20NA is likely in my eyes.

There is no decision yet. Now it's more about model (from the topic started here http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=160794). But I'm open for all suggestions. ))

There is no decision yet. Now it's more about model (from the topic started here http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=160794). But I'm open for all suggestions. ))

BTW, I wanted to mention the fact that our current P-51D pilot is a modern pilot. Is it possible that with the "new" P-51D version we would get a new pilot model to match WW2 setting, and also correct G-Suit from the period?

Also, I think both D25 and D20 blocks or models would be good for the period and their enemies. Just D25 would require less work on 3D model. And as it was mentioned by others, 72'hg was the standard for late 1944 for the fighters of the "Mighty Eighth" or 8th AAF, which was the unit that saw the most air to air combat on the western front.

This site has much of the needed evidence of that:

P-51D Performance:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/mustangtest.html

150oct fuel and boosts that come with it and their history and reports:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/150grade/150-grade-fuel.html

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/150-fuel-13-june44-b.jpg

Here are some examples:

On the side of the "Desert Rat", a skin we have in game btw :P. "Service this aircraft with 100/150 Grade" Which refers to the 100/150 Grade fuel.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/357thfg-desert-rat.jpg

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/352FG-150oct-bowser-b.jpg

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/Carson-pg66.jpg

All data belongs to the Archives of M. Williams. :book:

Just curious:

Where the 72" Manifold pressure number came from. I fly real world Mustangs and we would never use more than 61" on a stocker. The manual in a "D" or "K" would allow 61" or up to 67" if in an emergency. But that time above 61" was supposed to be logged and maintenance possibly would be performed(the real crews may have pulled the plugs or oil screens or some other things but I actually don't remember what I was taught about the post flight High power WW2 maint sched.) I do know that with 115-145 octane which was considered "HIgh Test" fuel, that you are limited in MP even if you could get more than 67" out of the blower, on a hot day, you could detonate the combustible air charge prior to proper time so Detonation or pre-ignition could occur and parts get destroyed in the engine. At Reno, when we run high power, we put a 50/50 mix of water and Methanol injected into the air intake after the blower and prior to the intake valves to cool the compressed air charge that got heated up by the blower. Many more variables there but the concern is potentially a too hot air charge going into the cylinders. I have forgotten which late model 51's had water injection(ADI or Anti Detonation Injection)Maybe anything with a dash 7 or dash 9 ran ADI and 80" but still 3000RPM.We run up to 150" and 35-3600 RPM when pylon racing. This allows the carb to be deriched which means it brings the very rich fuel/air mixture into "Best Power" and more horsepower is gained from the combustion. (Like a few hundred when dealing with the 1490 HP of an early dash number Merlin). The RPM is governed by the prop governor so the RPM Remains Constant and so does the MP when ADI is turned on. You would just see an increase in performance and "IF" you had a fuel flow guage, youd see a 16-18% decrease in fuel flow.

Basically, I'm just pointing out that the 72" number is a "Could be" but I have not seen too many boost controllers set to go that high.

Even up to 75" boost but lowered to 72".

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/150grade/150-grade-fuel.html

The Brits ran 25lb boost in their Mustangs.

Only P-51H with V-1650-9 was equiped with ADI,

V-1650-9A used in P(F)-51D after war was without it.

72" (75"allowed by Materiel Command) was only for 8th AF operating from England with 44-1 fuel (104/150 octane).

Only one user used this setting, but this one is the most known.

btw. 8th units operating from European continent during winter 44/45 flew with standard 61/67, because they were suplied with standard fuel 100/130 oct.

People want always more....

Only P-51H with V-1650-9 was equiped with ADI,

V-1650-9A used in P(F)-51D after war was without it.

 

72" (75"allowed by Materiel Command) was only for 8th AF operating from England with 44-1 fuel (104/150 octane).

Only one user used this setting, but this one is the most known.

btw. 8th units operating from European continent during winter 44/45 flew with standard 61/67, because they were suplied with standard fuel 100/130 oct.

 

People want always more....

If i didn't have mw50 i would ask for it too.But it's destroyed the engine so many times i use it rarely and lots of times i fly without. But it's great to have 72" option rather than not have it.Ads diversity to the game.

Only P-51H with V-1650-9 was equiped with ADI,

V-1650-9A used in P(F)-51D after war was without it.

 

72" (75"allowed by Materiel Command) was only for 8th AF operating from England with 44-1 fuel (104/150 octane).

Only one user used this setting, but this one is the most known.

btw. 8th units operating from European continent during winter 44/45 flew with standard 61/67, because they were suplied with standard fuel 100/130 oct.

 

People want always more....

Only 8th? 8th was the main fighting force in Western Europe/Germany that kept the pressure on the Luftwaffe and German war effort. Bombers of the 8th affected directly the Ruhr region and many other targets in Germany, Berlin incuded. 8th had one of the highest scoring aces of European Theatre and many amazing Mustang fighter groups such as 352nd FG and 357th FG.

If the Germans in this game had a Bf109G instead of 109K this discussion wouldn't even have place. But since Germans have their wunderwaffe, I don't see any real counterargument towards completely historicaly accurate and available setting and fuel.

The difference in power between 60 and 72" turns the P51 into an amazing performer.

Will

If the Germans in this game had a Bf109G instead of 109K this discussion wouldn't even have place.

True that, the whining would then be about the 109G. :lol:

True that, the whining would then be about the 109G. :lol:

:D

Only 8th? 8th was the main fighting force in Western Europe/Germany that kept the pressure on the Luftwaffe and German war effort. Bombers of the 8th affected directly the Ruhr region and many other targets in Germany, Berlin incuded. 8th had one of the highest scoring aces of European Theatre and many amazing Mustang fighter groups such as 352nd FG and 357th FG.

 

If the Germans in this game had a Bf109G instead of 109K this discussion wouldn't even have place. But since Germans have their wunderwaffe, I don't see any real counterargument towards completely historicaly accurate and available setting and fuel.

The "balance" meme has been tossed about by nay-sayers re: better 51 fuel for what, over a year, now? And they've had their way.

This isn't about "balance." It's about completing the Mustang. The Dora and K4 pilots are very quick to pull stats and numbers and post sheets in defense of a few knots air speed, or roll rate, or climb rate..... because there is evidence to back up their requests.

I have ZERO problem with that.

But a fighting plane is more than just a machine. It is a machine, its pilot, it load-out and other things like FUEL. Does it really matter what engine is installed in the sim if the fuel to feed it lacks a real-world option? Fuel is part of the module.

"Oh, don't be concerned with that. We're just helping you to not blow your engine. We're doing you a favor by protecting you from hurting yourself up there. We know it was available in historically significant supplies, but, you know.... we're not done tweaking the K4 yet."

You build a plane that is the cream of the crop, and toss it into a mix with another that is hamstrung in its fuel OPTIONS.

I'll be the latest to ask, "Why does supplying this option NOT make good sense?"

Ok, what is the block of the P51D we have in game? D30NA? If that's it, shouldn't it have 75 rating?

EDIT: Which fuel does the P51D we have in game uses?

Ok, what is the block of the P51D we have in game? D30NA? If that's it, shouldn't it have 75 rating?

 

EDIT: Which fuel does the P51D we have in game uses?

Block number doesn't mean anything and P-51B could run 150 Octane.

It only matters on the engine and all P-51D had V-1650-7.

After reading these posts I realized something interesting... I hardly ever even think about using WEP anymore. Way back when using it caused a seized engine after a bit I got used to going without. Does it still produce the same result within a single flight? I never felt the benefit outweighed the cost and these days when I do have a bad experience with the Mustang I usually know what I did wrong that got me there.

After reading these posts I realized something interesting... I hardly ever even think about using WEP anymore. Way back when using it caused a seized engine after a bit I got used to going without. Does it still produce the same result within a single flight? I never felt the benefit outweighed the cost and these days when I do have a bad experience with the Mustang I usually know what I did wrong that got me there.

I use it sometimes when I'm in a tight spot or when I have time to open my rads before combat, but most of the time I just use max continuous.

Or I just set the RPM at 3000 and just use the throttle, you just have to make sure you have enough airflow to cool the engine, if I go vertical for to long or to much my engine starts to heat up.

I usually don't have much of a problem in dogfights when I'm flying with friends and we stick together, only when I fight alone do I really have problems.

Teamwork makes the dream work.:smilewink:

I use it sometimes when I'm in a tight spot or when I have time to open my rads before combat, but most of the time I just use max continuous.

Or I just set the RPM at 3000 and just use the throttle, you just have to make sure you have enough airflow to cool the engine, if I go vertical for to long or to much my engine starts to heat up.

I usually don't have much of a problem in dogfights when I'm flying with friends and we stick together, only when I fight alone do I really have problems.

 

Teamwork makes the dream work.:smilewink:

Roger, I agree for the most part. Some testing done in the past seemed to suggest the failures from WEP were not airflow/temp dependent. Almost like an accelerated wear & tear model of pushing the motor too hard. Just curious.

Roger, I agree for the most part. Some testing done in the past seemed to suggest the failures from WEP were not airflow/temp dependent. Almost like an accelerated wear & tear model of pushing the motor too hard. Just curious.

I'll do some test next time im in, I think it must be tied to temps because my engine rarely fails unless it overheats or gets hit.

I've rarely ever had an engine just seize up on me in flight, usually it gives me signs before it quits on me.

If your engine is just freezing up you may want to check if your pulling back the rpm before the throttle. I find that if I pull the rpm back before the throttle I get engine trouble. pretty much just keep the rpm in front of the throttle at all times and you shouldnt have problems.

I'll do some test next time im in, I think it must be tied to temps because my engine rarely fails unless it overheats or gets hit.

I've rarely ever had an engine just seize up on me in flight, usually it gives me signs before it quits on me.

If your engine is just freezing up you may want to check if your pulling back the rpm before the throttle. I find that if I pull the rpm back before the throttle I get engine trouble. pretty much just keep the rpm in front of the throttle at all times and you shouldnt have problems.

This was years ago. No engine problems now, but like I said, I rarely use WEP if ever. I appreciate your responses and I'll have to do some testing of my own to see.

I use WEP nearly always during combat, and last time I've lost my engine was maybe a month ago. If you keep your speed high and at low altitude use emergency rich mixture, you can run 67'hg without much problem for a long time. Without WEP. With bad enemy target's it is easy to wing without WEP, but when a guy knows more than how to fly straight WEP is mandatory.

Also, there is a reason why 44-1 150oct fuel was used for 72' and 75' boost. You cannot run the engine with 100/130oct fuel and go that high on boost, 67' is max.

I use WEP nearly always during combat, and last time I've lost my engine was maybe a month ago. If you keep your speed high and at low altitude use emergency rich mixture, you can run 67'hg without much problem for a long time. Without WEP. With bad enemy target's it is easy to wing without WEP, but when a guy knows more than how to fly straight WEP is mandatory.

 

Also, there is a reason why 44-1 150oct fuel was used for 72' and 75' boost. You cannot run the engine with 100/130oct fuel and go that high on boost, 67' is max.

I guess I only fly against "bad enemy targets" :music_whistling: