ridbobkan Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Hello Razbam team, we may have an new issue since last update. Flying straight around 400 knots, then moving stick fully to left or right: aircraft is rolling over (at this stage, this is normal :lol: ) but after a few seconds, AoA is increasing until too much Gs and wing breakage. Fly-by-wire should avoid this situation and keep the noze onto the horizon. :pilotfly: Last icon is just because I love it. :music_whistling: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Is that based on the m2k FBW manual? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridbobkan Posted June 25, 2016 Author Share Posted June 25, 2016 Is that based on the m2k FBW manual? What do you mean by "that"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 I mean your statement that the FBW should avoid it. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridbobkan Posted June 25, 2016 Author Share Posted June 25, 2016 I mean your statement that the FBW should avoid it. Ok; that's true it is more a guess than a statement. I believe the FBW is also meant to keep the bird in a safe zone. What do "people who know" think about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrei Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Ok; that's true it is more a guess than a statement. I believe the FBW is also meant to keep the bird in a safe zone. With constant high rate roll you are creating excessive yaw as well which overstesses aircraft. Read #5 in this piece here, keeping in mind that Mirage is a delta. I do not believe that FBW was so smart at that time to handle such cases. AMD R7 5800X3D | Aorus B550 Pro | 32GB DDR4-3600 | RTX 4080 | VKB MGC Pro Gunfighter Mk III + Thustmaster TWCS + VKB T-Rudder Mk4 | HP Reverb G2 FC3 | A-10C II | Ка-50 | P-51 | UH-1 | Ми-8 | F-86F | МиГ-21 | FW-190 | МиГ-15 | Л-39 | Bf 109 | M-2000C | F-5 | Spitfire | AJS-37 | AV-8B | F/A-18C | Як-52 | F-14 | F-16 | Ми-24 | AH-64 NTTR | Normandy | Gulf | Syria | Supercarrier | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridbobkan Posted June 25, 2016 Author Share Posted June 25, 2016 With constant high rate roll you are creating excessive yaw as well which overstesses aircraft. Read #5 in this piece here, keeping in mind that Mirage is a delta. I do not believe that FBW was so smart at that time to handle such cases. My guess comes from manual saying the fbw prevents pilots from being in over G situation. But maybe this is a specific situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Hello Razbam team, we may have an new issue since last update. Flying straight around 400 knots, then moving stick fully to left or right: aircraft is rolling over (at this stage, this is normal :lol: ) but after a few seconds, AoA is increasing until too much Gs and wing breakage. Fly-by-wire should avoid this situation and keep the noze onto the horizon. :pilotfly: Last icon is just because I love it. :music_whistling: How many consecutives rolls are you performing ? Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2. Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IvanK Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 With constant high rate roll you are creating excessive yaw as well which overstesses aircraft. Read #5 in this piece here, keeping in mind that Mirage is a delta. I do not believe that FBW was so smart at that time to handle such cases. I think you are referring to the phenomena know as "Roll Coupling" which is a real issue in many of the earlier fighters. The Mirage III had real issues with this with strict IAS v number of sequential rolls. I believe the MIR2K FBW system should prevent the onset of Roll coupling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 You should limit to 2 consecutives full rolls. But I don't know if the FBW enforce this limitation or not... Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2. Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeus67 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 You should limit to 2 consecutives full rolls. But I don't know if the FBW enforce this limitation or not... I doubt it is able to do that. The FBW cannot read minds, so that is probably a warning in the pilot's manual. "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." "The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 The reason I asked is because I've seen footage of other FBW equipped aircraft departing after multiple consecutive rolls. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridbobkan Posted June 26, 2016 Author Share Posted June 26, 2016 http://plays.tv/video/576f7d6c4a4cf1d32c/air-to-air-conf-stick-full-left-no-up-no-down- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 http://plays.tv/video/576f7d6c4a4cf1d32c/air-to-air-conf-stick-full-left-no-up-no-down- So the pilot is advised to limit itself to 2 rolls. Here it breaks at 4.5 rolls. So I'm not sure it would happen in real, but it's not a real issue here. Just avoid to do it :D Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2. Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTharos Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Likewise I'm not certain that it should break the wing, but excesive yaw should result in departure. I don't think it's easy to simulate roll coupling + everything else easily though. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash_Horror Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 1 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] http://buddyspike.net/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkbrotherhood7 Posted June 26, 2016 Share Posted June 26, 2016 Nice vid!:thumbup: Mission: "To intercept and destroy aircraft and airborne missiles in all weather conditions in order to establish and maintain air superiority in a designated area. To deliver air-to-ground ordnance on time in any weather condition. And to provide tactical reconaissance imagery" - F-14 Tomcat Roll Call [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IvanK Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 This Vid was in the early days of the FA18 specifically when the FCS software was being tweaked for the Blue Angles aeroplanes. This was Very early FCS software 5.3 Prom where the aeroplane could be a little squrily. In the A/B Hornet you got Yaw tone at 25sec Yaw rate as I recall. If you didn't honour the tone the next thing you saw was a rapid increase in AOA. Now increasing AOA and Yaw sets you up for the roll coupling entry. Later Software effectively makes this so much easier ... a case in point is the later model FA18 software loads allowing the "Pirouette" manoeuver seen at airshows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvsgas Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I don't know if it is a FBW thing, but F-16 do not like excessive rolls either. (excerpt) PROHIBITED MANEUVERS - Maximum command rolls exceeding 360 degrees of bank angle change. - Maximum command rolling maneuvers above 1.8 mach and either above 3g or below 35,000 feet MSL. - Rudder rolls or rudder-assisted rolls of more than 90 degrees of bank angle change with any store on station 3, 4, 6, or 7. - With LG and/or TEF’s down: Maximum command rolls of more than 90 degrees of bank angle change. - Abrupt roll reversals above 550 knots and below 20,000 feet MSL with the STORES CONFIG switch in CAT I. - Rapid rudder release or reversal above 300 knots/0.6 mach. To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jojo Posted June 27, 2016 Share Posted June 27, 2016 I don't know if it is a FBW thing, but F-16 do not like excessive rolls either. (excerpt) I think it's a thing with aircrafts which have a high roll rate (around 300deg/s)... Mirage fanatic ! I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2. Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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