IR Pointer

What is the IR pointer in the TGP used for? Is it for buddy pointing? Has anyone here ever used it in multi-player?

Marking/Indicating targets/other points of interest.

And yes use it in MP often.

I have used it for example to spot targets for allied Ka50 on a nighttime mission

Looks very cool in MP. "The finger of God"

This may be a stupid question but how does one enable this feature? I've never delved too deep into the TGP and never really heard of this feature.

With the TGP as SOI, use DMS Right Short to switch between 'L'aser, 'P'ointer and 'B'oth. I also set the Latch to On so I don't have to hold the Laser/Nose Wheel Steering button down.

Make an SPI and fire off the Pointer. You and everyone else will be able to see the beam with NVGs. This is only effective at night.

Combined Arms JTACs can turn on a Pointer, too.

If you use Both and fire the Laser with the Pointer, you can interfere with someone else's Laser GBU's, where their bomb can unintentionally go to your target instead of theirs.

Of course this can be intentional, which is very cool.

WC

3 years later and I'm still learning odd little things. Thanks Crew!

Combined Arms JTACs can turn on a Pointer, too.

 

If you use Both and fire the Laser with the Pointer, you can interfere with someone else's Laser GBU's, where their bomb can unintentionally go to your target instead of theirs.

Of course this can be intentional, which is very cool.

WC

Hmmm, thinking of a Red JTAC shooting a laser into an open field to confuse Blue bombers from hitting their target.

What's that Blue laser freq again?

WC

If you use Both and fire the Laser with the Pointer, you can interfere with someone else's Laser GBU's, where their bomb can unintentionally go to your target instead of theirs.

Of course this can be intentional, which is very cool.

 

 

WC

Hmmm, thinking of a Red JTAC shooting a laser into an open field to confuse Blue bombers from hitting their target.

 

What's that Blue laser freq again?

 

WC

Hrm, somehow it makes no real sense what you said there. :o)

LGBs find their target by the reflections of a laser beam of a specific (range of) wave length that also has "laser code" encoded (think of pulses, roughly like morse). If that code is also encrypted to prevent spoofing, I don't know ...

But to intentionally interfere with a LGB drop, you would have to know that code beforehand (one more reason to lase as short as possible before the impact).

The intentional use of this idea is for example ground troops (JTAC) lasing a target, or buddy lasing.

The laser pointer on the other hand is just a visual signal, comparable to smoke signals, that has nothing to do with actually guiding a LGB to it's target. It is just an aid to talk someone else onto the target. And as you are talking to the guy who is pointing, you can make sure it is the correct laser pointer you are watching.

(yeah, if suddenly the whole battlefield is illuminated by 200 laser pointers, that might make your mission a tad bit difficult, though. :o)

Hrm, somehow it makes no real sense what you said there. :o)

 

 

The laser pointer on the other hand is just a visual signal, comparable to smoke signals, that has nothing to do with actually guiding a LGB to it's target.

Many folks confuse the Laser with the Pointer. You can't see the Laser and you can't guide GBUs with the Pointer.

On one mission I was using Both but really just wanted to Point. Eno dropped a GBU-12 on a target close to what I was Pointing to. He was counting down his impact time and said it missed as the bomb blew up on my target -- apparently it had locked onto my Laser all the way down as I was painting my target the whole time.

I have also worked with A-10Cs and JTACs for Laser painting and GBU-10 or -12 drops and that is quite fun. A-10Cs can paint for each other, too, of course.

So, what's the typical Laser freq -- 1688, I think. If a Red JTAC could turn on his Laser at freq 1688 and paint some target of no value then would a Blue GBU follow it, like in the case of me and Eno? -- I think so.

WC

Many folks confuse the Laser with the Pointer. You can't see the Laser and you can't guide GBUs with the Pointer.

 

On one mission I was using Both but really just wanted to Point. Eno dropped a GBU-12 on a target close to what I was Pointing to. He was counting down his impact time and said it missed as the bomb blew up on my target -- apparently it had locked onto my Laser all the way down as I was painting my target the whole time.

 

I have also worked with A-10Cs and JTACs for Laser painting and GBU-10 or -12 drops and that is quite fun. A-10Cs can paint for each other, too, of course.

 

So, what's the typical Laser freq -- 1688, I think. If a Red JTAC could turn on his Laser at freq 1688 and paint some target of no value then would a Blue GBU follow it, like in the case of me and Eno? -- I think so.

 

WC

Ah, now I understand what you mean ... makes more sense to me now. :music_whistling:

The question about the blue/red laser codes, perhaps more relevant to DCS than IRL, but nevertheless a good question.

Are designation lasers encrypted, so that just knowing the laser code by the enemy would not really cause problems? How do SOFLAM & co. work IRL, can anyone shed some light upon this topic here?

Ah, now I understand what you mean ... makes more sense to me now. :music_whistling:

 

The question about the blue/red laser codes, perhaps more relevant to DCS than IRL, but nevertheless a good question.

 

Are designation lasers encrypted, so that just knowing the laser code by the enemy would not really cause problems? How do SOFLAM & co. work IRL, can anyone shed some light upon this topic here?

Every aircraft uses a unique LASER code which is assigned either in the ATO, or as part of the Sqn directives etc. No two aircraft operating in the airspace will have the same LASER code on their weapons.

If the enemy managed to get hold of the LASER codes for a given flight, they'd have got their hands on the ATO itself and you (and every other aircraft in the sky) would have much bigger problems than someone maybe knowing your weapon LASER code.

In short this is DCS "problem" stemming from poor procedures/preparation, it just isn't an issue in reality.

Every aircraft uses a unique LASER code which is assigned either in the ATO, or as part of the Sqn directives etc. No two aircraft operating in the airspace will have the same LASER code on their weapons.

 

If the enemy managed to get hold of the LASER codes for a given flight, they'd have got their hands on the ATO itself and you (and every other aircraft in the sky) would have much bigger problems than someone maybe knowing your weapon LASER code.

 

In short this is DCS "problem" stemming from poor procedures/preparation, it just isn't an issue in reality.

But if just keeping the PRF code undisclosed is the only security mechanism ... I mean, wouldn't it be relatively easy - technically - to "read" the code when I am painted ... to then designate a (or several) spoof target nearby to confuse the weapon and make it go for the spoof target?

Assuming you could project a duplicate LASER beam along the attack direction of the weapon (if you don't it won't see the reflection in the first place), you'd still need to have the processing capability to duplicate any LASER energy fast enough that the weapon would actually be able to change its flight path before impact.

Then you have the issue that the weapon would be unlikely to switch on to an alternative source of LASER energy given the size of the sensor FOV unless the alternative target was pretty close to the intended target, in which case the target would likely still be in the blast/frag pattern anyway.

Next you have to added cost of developing and installing such a system on your armoured vehicles (not a small cost given the number of them). And the complication of maintaining such a system, which would require additional maintenance personnel and supply chain, more cost. All to protect a vehicle which, in the real world, is actually considered reasonably expendable from a strategic standpoint.

But the biggest issue with your idea, is why go to all that trouble, when simply deploying the vehicles smoke screen (either engine generated, or grenade based white phosphorus etc) would ultimately be more effective and faster. ;)

Assuming you could project a duplicate LASER beam along the attack direction of the weapon (if you don't it won't see the reflection in the first place), you'd still need to have the processing capability to duplicate any LASER energy fast enough that the weapon would actually be able to change its flight path before impact.

 

Then you have the issue that the weapon would be unlikely to switch on to an alternative source of LASER energy given the size of the sensor FOV unless the alternative target was pretty close to the intended target, in which case the target would likely still be in the blast/frag pattern anyway.

 

Next you have to added cost of developing and installing such a system on your armoured vehicles (not a small cost given the number of them). And the complication of maintaining such a system, which would require additional maintenance personnel and supply chain, more cost. All to protect a vehicle which, in the real world, is actually considered reasonably expendable from a strategic standpoint.

 

But the biggest issue with your idea, is why go to all that trouble, when simply deploying the vehicles smoke screen (either engine generated, or grenade based white phosphorus etc) would ultimately be more effective and faster. ;)

I think, technically it would be relatively simple to do - at least for an enemy with some decent technological capabilities. But probably you are right - and even if the costs were neglible (are 20K ... or was it 200K? for a SOFLAM unit ... just for comparisation ... "neglible"? hrm ...), the effectiveness might be the stop gap.

Perhaps to protect high-value targets, like specific buildings, which were not so easily concealable by smoke? Maybe not even for that ... those targets would be most likely be flattened by a tomahawk anyways. :o)

I think the most important point about fooling the GBU would be its small FOV, as well as the time you'd have to fool it.

FOV: Ever gotten a bad GBU CCRP drop? You don't need to be much off for the GBU to not even see the laser. So even if you get your hands on the laser code, and start transmitting a second one to get the GBU away from you, you won't be able to get it very far away from you at all.

(This is of course depending on that GBU behaviour is well portrayed in DCS.)

Time to act: Most of us put the autolase time on less than 10 seconds. So yet again, if it's realistic, then it means that you have less than 10 seconds to A, know that a GBU has been dropped against you, B, what the laser code is, and C, transmit a laser of your own. And not too far away from you to prevent it from not being seen by the GBU.

And even if you could manage all of this, it'll be very easy to counteract. More and more GBUs already use both INS and laser as guidance, so it'd probably be very simple to make a hotfix telling the GBU to revert to inertial navigation if it registers more than one laser.

I have used it for example to spot targets for allied Ka50 on a nighttime mission

Really? I was under the impression the Ka-50 could not see the IR pointer of the A10.

if the pilot puts on NVGs he can see the pointer. The shark won't auto-seek it like the TGP will, though.

The TGP won't auto-seek too, because it can only seek lasers, not IR-pointers.